Retraining "Dilution"

**Zild** · 11-06-2009, 20:05

...and yet sometimes my units will auto-merge after a fight?! What's going on there then?

Prussian Iron, that plan sounds like it is worth some investigating...

**gollum** · 11-06-2009, 20:25

Originally posted by Zild
Well I guess it makes sense in some ways. Existing survivors can impart their experiences upon new recruits, teaching them the little tricks that the official training program might shun.

Imo it makes sense to impart the valor of the survivors to the new recruits as in the old games - the more new recruits you have the more the valor is dilluted. Having more valor than the survivors for a whole unit of new recruits isn't exactly realistic.

Perhaps this was part of the reason for changing the term from "valour" to "experience.

Or maybe they wanted a more universally recognizable term - in the older games "experience" was named in a fashion that was relevant to the perception of experience/battle ability in society; honour in STW, valour in MTW. In Rome and onwards though it gets to be called "experience" and represented by "chevrons" which are irrelevant within the historical context afaik unlike the predecessors.

It seems to me that it has to do with accessibility and marketing.

I do not see it as an exploit in terms of realism, but I do wonder why the AI makes little use of the method. (To be honest, I thought the AI was keen on retraining...)

It is actually a huge exploit that tips the scales significantly towards the player; using massretrain you can conquer significant parts of the map without ever having to spend the recruitment money for units; the AI does not retrain so he always ends up paying them - if you count them in the long run as well as the recruiting times they add up to a very significant advantage for the player in terms of cost and time.

**Zild** · 11-06-2009, 21:23

That's curious - I thought it cost the same (or perhaps even more) to retrain than it did to train fresh units. Then again, I've also seen 59 crossbowmen retrain (adding one) for 57 florins, then again for only 12 florins a few turns later. This game is making less and less sense!

**gollum** · 11-06-2009, 21:59

Oops - you are right Zild - the cost of retraining should be comparable to that of recruiting - however the time issue is for sure for the benefit of the player especially since the AI does not use it. This alone does make retraining "unfair" for the AI.

The discrepencies may be due to different valor/weapon/armor upgrades; all have their cost afaik.

**Gray_Lensman** · 11-06-2009, 23:32

Originally Posted by Zild

That's curious - I thought it cost the same (or perhaps even more) to retrain than it did to train fresh units. Then again, I've also seen 59 crossbowmen retrain (adding one) for 57 florins, then again for only 12 florins a few turns later. This game is making less and less sense!

Within the game, retraining is a broad term. It can mean replenishing the manpower, bringing the armor up to current settlement standards, or even enhancing the weaponry of the unit being retrained. Any combination of the above actions result in retraining meaning you might have a unit that only needs a few of its men retrained for just one of the above circumstances resulting in a lower cost than one might have expected. The game makes perfect sense in this respect. You just have to understand the mechanics.

**Zild** · 11-07-2009, 00:26

Both times there were no armour and no weapons upgrades involved and I believe the experience of the units was the same. Of course, two units each with 1 chevron could have very different amounts of experience behind the scenes - 1.0 and 1.999... - which could easily account for the difference.

**Old Geezer** · 11-12-2009, 19:38

I often will recruit a unit and send it on a mission to attack a stack of rebels or another faction just to get as many of them killed as possible so that I can merge it with a more experienced unit. A unit with 9 chevrons can often bring such a unit up to silver (4 chevrons). You may consider this an exploit or a cheat or just smart management. The AI doesn't care and neither do I.

**Zild** · 11-13-2009, 14:40

I'd call it calous, but not an exploit! Would be nice if your faction leader / local generals gained traits as a result of such actions...

I accidentally let some unsupported artillery (my favourite pair of 5XP ballistae and a catapult!) get caught up in a field battle (the rest of the army had pressed on to besiege Marseille). I let them mash up the enemy before retreating (first shot killed their general :D ) but was enjoying the fireworks too much and sustained substantial losses. Still, that upped their experience somewhat and after retraining one of them is now a 20-strong 7XP unit! I am pretty sure they cost substantially more to retrain than training a no-experience ballista, so I do not consider this an exploit.

But what would you guys do about the following? I have (or rather had, he died off a few days ago!) an 8XP Crusader Knight (is that the right name? The early period mounted unit only available on crusades) It will be a long time before I can crusade again to get him any friends, and being a special crusade unit there is no retraining option. I would like to make him a general through Man of the Hour (would the general keep this experience?) but I do not know how to force him to take command, and I can hardly send him alone against a real enemy! And even if I did, the lone knight would still remain...

What would you guys do with such a unit? Does a MOTH general have the experience of the unit he commanded in battle? How is the general determined in armies without a family member?