Shooting At Ft.Hood

[Subotan]

We know that radical islam motivated him

We do

Blaming Islam is a cop out for people who don't want to admit there is a real problem with the military and PTSD.

If PTSD was called what it actually was, Shell Shock, then it would be taken a lot more seriously.

[Husar]

lmao, and you took that seriously? lolzeroo

I have questions:

1) Why did no one notice that the shooter was cracking up before the shooting?
2) Did he ever get a security clearance, requiring a background check?
3) Did he own the weapons he used?
4) What did his immediate supervisor and chain of command think of him?

In short: was this crazy incident predictable? Was it preventable?

Guilt certainly lies with the shooter; but there are probably some lessons to be learned here.

5) Was he being harassed by others?

I think the answer to 3 is Yes, they say it were his own privately-owned guns.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

There's absolutely zero evidence he was motivated by religion, the claim that the attack was because he might of said Alluh Akbar is ridiculous, it was to my knowledge that many Muslim devotees say this phrase in many situations as it means "God is great", Muslims use this for many reasons, it's not some kind of death cry, it's not some kind of declaration they hate the west and want to kill us all, it's no worse than a Christian crossing the cross across his chest, it's simply a deceleration of faith, and it was already established before hand that the guy was a Muslim..

You know, the context is kind of important. If one of the people shot was Muslim and said it before he died, it would be fairly obvious that he was using it in a different context than his killer.

[lars573]

If PTSD was called what it actually was, Shell Shock, then it would be taken a lot more seriously.

PTSD =/= Shell shock.

Combat stress reaction (aka Shell shock or Battle fatigue)

[Andres]

Now, I find it quite funny that you people keep asking "why do you care he was muslim?". As soon as a shooting happens, we discuss the shooter's background for weeks, whether said shooter was a goth, an antisocial guy, an asian, played Quack3, listened to some random bad band.
But then I don't see anyone going "why do you care he listened heavy metal/was antisocial/asian?". This politicaly correct view of the world is saddening.

I can only speak for myself, of course, but I always follorw the "who cares if he was a ***/he played ***/he watched ***/he listened to ***, he was a nutjob just like all other nutters who wake up and decide to go killing random people" line of thought when tragedies like this occur, because I sincerely think that blaming such a shooting on video games, books, films or music is as silly as blaming it on the killers' origin or religion.

My apologies if I'm mistaken, but I don't think I've ever said otherwise in another thread about such a shooting, so your assertion as if my posts are inspired by political correctness is not only unfair but also simply not true.

The things such people say/write/yell to justify what is not justifiable can be different, but in the end, they're all completely and utterly insane.

So when I ask "why is his religion so important", then that is a sincere question.

All these people who do such things have something which is supposed to have "inspired" them; I say it doesn't matter, because the real questionj is "why did it inspire this specific person to go over the edge? Why this guy? What is it about him that he reacts that way?"

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The real question is, could all this have happened if the guy wasn't a faithful muslim? If he didn't have a muslim name? If he didn't give a crap about his fellow brothers-in-religion?
I'm not saying Islam pushed him to do it. I'm saying what pushed him to do it is tied to his religious views.

Well, I said it was tied to his views as well. I think we disagree about how important it was. I also think it could easily be a case of square peg square hole--if you were to generalize, I think it's possible that a number of things could take on the psychological role that his religion had.

I'm certain we all have a killer burried deep inside of us. What made this one comes to light was what the guy perceived as an unfair treatement of his religion imo.

Eh, certainly we all have a killer in us. It isn't buried deep either. Self defense, defense of family. But the fact that the percentage of people who turn to mass murder is so small indicates that it is something specific to them. We don't all have a psychopath buried in us for example, it's a biological condition.

I think the isolation was more than likely the biggest factor.

Now, I find it quite funny that you people keep asking "why do you care he was muslim?". As soon as a shooting happens, we discuss the shooter's background for weeks, whether said shooter was a goth, an antisocial guy, an asian, played Quack3, listened to some random bad band.
But then I don't see anyone going "why do you care he listened heavy metal/was antisocial/asian?". This politicaly correct view of the world is saddening.

The people asking "why do you care he was muslim?" probably think it is similar to all the talk after columbine about how the listened to marilyn manson.

Well, they could be being politically correct or they could genuinely think it isn't related. If someone disagrees with you it isn't necessarily because they are politically correct.

Guy was a religious nutjob, felt his religion was being overly bashed (which might very well be true) and went nut. Simply scrapping the religion part because you know, "muslims are fine and dandy and facing already enough prejudice as it is" is stupid.

That's a shallow view to take. If you want to figure out what the profile of these kind of shooters is for future reference, you have to look deeper. You have to understand what kinds of people react this way to their religion being bashed and why. It isn't the simple formula you are making it out to be.

And the whole "shooters are insane" speech is unimaginative. Most shooters have reasons to do what they do. We might not understand them, we might find them stupid, but they're here. Insanity is used to conveniently label everything we don't understand.

I speculated on the reasons and posted a quote from another killer with some of his claimed reasons


*************

Keeping with that, since I find it more interesting than the argument about what's politically correct, here's some food for thought:

Stress can be contagious, which is why psychotherapists need to take extra care regarding their own mental health. Had Dr. Hasan himself been emotionally traumatized and ethically conflicted by hearing the grotesque horror stories of war from his fellow soldiers? By constantly being told about his fellow Muslims and Army brethren slaughtering and maiming each other for their countries? This could result in a form of what we call countertransference: the psychotherapist's personal reactions to his or her patients and their particular presenting problems. Countertransference is a common phenomenon in mental health professionals, an occupational hazard, and must be carefully monitored. When it begins to become disturbing for the psychotherapist, impairing his or her objectivity and interfering with the treatment process, it becomes crucial to address it in supervision, consultation and/or one's own personal therapy. If the countertransference cannot be resolved in relatively short order, or at least kept in check, psychotherapists must ethically recuse themselves from such cases and refer the patient elsewhere. This begs the question: Should Dr. Hasan, given his apparently passionate religious and political beliefs, have been working with such patients in the first place?

....

From a forensic perspective, there is certainly far too little information available at this time to come to any meaningful conclusions regarding such a defendant's mental status. And it is improper to do so without having conducted a formal forensic evaluation. But determining his state of mind at the time of this crime and prior to it will prove crucial to his legal case. As a forensic criminal psychologist, here are some of the questions I would be asking myself if appointed by the court to evaluate such a defendant: Was the defendant clinically depressed, possibly to the point of paranoid psychosis? Could there have been any kind of substance abuse or intoxication involved? Was he in treatment and taking any psychiatric medications? Is there an underlying personality disorder? Were these shootings a tragic, impulsive manifestation of a manic or hypomanic episode, indicating the possible presence of bipolar disorder? Or, was this the hateful, calculating, vengeful act of a profoundly angry, frustrated, resentful and embittered--but not psychotic--person? (See my previous posts on post-traumatic embitterment disorder.)

Was Dr. Hasan a suicidal individual, who, like so many mass murderers, chose to die--very much like a suicide-bomber--taking as many victims with him as possible? Psychiatrists as a group have a notoriously high rate of suicides, though suicide rates in Muslim populations are exceedingly low. The notion that Hasan had become actively suicidal is supported by unconfirmed reports today that he allegedly advised his landlord two weeks ago that he would be leaving his apartment on the day of the shooting--despite the fact that he was not likely to actually be physically deployed for another few months. Hasan also is said to have given away his belongings, furniture, food, cleaned out his apartment, and said goodbye to friends just prior to the massacre, handing some of them copies of the Koran. Unless he was convinced he was leaving the country in the immediate future, such preparatory behavior could be interpreted as a prelude to suicide. Or, in this case, premeditated homicide-suicide. Hasan may have hoped to have time to take his own life after his murder spree, or be taken out by police. So-called suicide by cop.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...-or-political-

Psychology today is kind of a pop psychology mag, but

[Andres]

We don't all have a psychopath buried in us for example, it's a biological condition.

Indeed.

I think the isolation was more than likely the biggest factor.

Yep.

He certainly fits the profile of most psychopaths. Loner, male, 30-40, difficulties to follow social norms.

The people asking "why do you care he was muslim?" probably think it is similar to all the talk after columbine about how the listened to marilyn manson.

Indeed. Thank you

That's a shallow view to take. If you want to figure out what the profile of these kind of shooters is for future reference, you have to look deeper. You have to understand what kinds of people react this way to their religion being bashed and why. It isn't the simple formula you are making it out to be.

Correct.


Nice post

[Strike For The South]

Clearly the biggest thing here is that he was insane but had he been raised a hindu would've he snapped?

[Furunculus]

What about his supervisor? A muslim who is against the Iraq/Afganistan war, who wants to leave the military, who is mobbed because of his religion, who wants the troops to come home, who as a psychiatrist gets to hear all the traumatic experiences and personal catastophies unfiltered, probably has to work more then 40 hours a week, sending someone like him to Iraq or Afganistan against his will is really not a smart psychological decission. That the risk in such a situation for a man to explode and to loose the nerves being exorbitant greater should be clear to everyone, even american generals. A person like him acts like this because of sheer desperation and not because of idealogy.

(original text by El Senor Wolflero)

he just randomly went skitz with two other guys, who randonly went skitz too, at the same time.................?

best said by mark steyn so far:

there's something deeply weird about the media's instinctive avoidance of the M-word or the T-word and the careless abandon with which they speculate about "post-traumatic stress disorder" even as the emerging facts render it absurd (a three-man conspiracy to commit PTSD?).

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Clearly the biggest thing here is that he was insane but had he been raised a hindu would've he snapped?

I think they they should (and certainly will) pay closer attention to muslims who are conflicted about our wars and are being harrassed. Check to see if they are alienated etc.

If he'd been buddhist maybe he would have set himself on fire? Well, my impression is that those guys were doing it for very different reasons.

It's possible that a different religion could have counteracted his character. He probably wouldn't have gone on a killing spree if he hadn't been in the army or if he'd found a wife. No doubt there are plenty of possible killers who get derailed. Or maybe he would have failed at finding a devout hindu wife and still been harrassed for his ethnicity.

there's something deeply weird about the media's instinctive avoidance of the M-word or the T-word and the careless abandon with which they speculate about "post-traumatic stress disorder" even as the emerging facts render it absurd (a three-man conspiracy to commit PTSD?).

Not really well said at all, since there weren't three men, they extensively mention muslim, and terrorist doesn't seem applicable.

[Hax]

If he'd been buddhist maybe he would have set himself on fire? Well, my impression is that those guys were doing it for very different reasons.

Yes, lighting yourself alight is the favourite Buddhist way of making a statement. Except in Japan, where (in the case of a civil war) you arm yourself and slaughter other people.

I remember a lot of Sikhs being physically and verbally abused after 9/11. Would it have mattered? I don't think so; if you don't look Caucasian you could be prone to harrassment.

[Husar]

Yes, lighting yourself alight is the favourite Buddhist way of making a statement. Except in Japan, where (in the case of a civil war) you arm yourself and slaughter other people.

I remember a lot of Sikhs being physically and verbally abused after 9/11. Would it have mattered? I don't think so; if you don't look Caucasian you could be prone to harrassment.

Well, if by harassment they mean the occassional joke or weird comment once in a while, sometimes followed by a slap on the back by a good friend, then yes, he was nuts, but if it's a constant thing that is rather serious, then it's a bit like opening a can of worms. I remember a teacher of mine once tried to investigate why I was an outsider in class (so obviously he noticed something) but the others just said they were making casual jokes like they did with everyone else. One time they turned around and told me to go away as they wanted nothing to do with me, they certainly did not do that with anyone else. It can be really hard to tell, in that one argument I was almost convinced myself, on other days I was really enraged, it can be very low-key yet so hurtful and I really wanted to fight back, just couldn't do it with words, neither with fists, you can guess where this can lead, you need something powerful, something they cannot just talk away, something that shows them and possibly makes them sorry about what they did... Singling out the guys who treated you worse while sparing those who had at least some compassion is also a way to keep thinking you are actually sane, just punishing those ********* who are treating you badly.

Well, I'm not sure how much this fits here, apparently the harassment was only brought up in one of the early articles, I'm just saying it can be a big factor and people who harass others over the course of months or years really cause big harm and IMO partly have themselves to blame if the person snaps, it's a bit like poking a bear with a stick making yourself think it's just a harmless rabbit...

Then again I'm probably insane myself so maybe I'm just proving everyone's point.

[Centurion1]

The person to blame is the shooter.

He did it to make a statement and likely to end his life.

Had it been only about deployment he could have resigned his commission and soon been back to work in most any military hospital in the states.

Military Officers have no set term of service and can basically quit.

He had other motives for staying in the Army.

His religious views may have played a part but that should no more cover the whole religion than when any other religious nut does something as tragic.

The last I heard he was unconscious.

I do so hope he recovers from his wounds and faces what he has done.

Just a clarification here. i just finished my marine corps and army rotc applications and this is how it works. 5 year active or 8 years reserve after college. if you are so lucky to get to be a medical porfessional they tack on two years for every year of medical school. you do your residency in the military. So he most likely wasnt quite done yet.


My thoughts on this guy........
complete coward i hope he burns, freezes, etc. in whatever hell you can imagine. He was a PSYCHOLOGIST. he would be on some of the most secure bases on Earrh while over there or maybe if he was lucky enough he would remain on a ship. Statistically he would probably be safer not like he would be going out on patrols in the afghani mountains.

Second i think religion played a role in this event. do i think it was the one factor, no. but i do not think that it could ever have helped. He obviously followed a radical form of islam as can be seen by his idea that suicide bombers are like American soldiers who throw themselves on grenades.

Thirdly i do not believe he was in any way shape or form suffering from ptsd. my cousin suffered from minor forms of ptsd after returning from iraq and another has nightmares after returning from a tour in afghanistan. The man cannot have ptsd, simply not possible.

Fourthly, I find it very difficult to believe he was harassed. no one harasses a major in the United States Army. Lower ranks for obvious reasons and higher ranks because you don't reach lieutenant colonel and higher by being a d. bag. I doubt the man even received very much innocent ribbing.

Fifthly, this man was insane, obviously.

finally i hate this man so passionately for his cowardice. My cousins segeant was an arab-american (believe his parents were kuwaiti or something of that ilk) who happened to be a sunni muslim. He was according to my cousin one of the bravest men he had ever met and won a bronze (award for valor) star while over in iraq........ so i hope this guy gets the death penalty and is sent to his eternal punishment even sooner.

Oh and does anyone else remember that guy right before desert storm (muslim) who threw a grenade into a tent of his comrades so he didnt have to fight........

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Just a clarification here. i just finished my marine corps and army rotc applications and this is how it works. 5 year active or 8 years reserve after college. if you are so lucky to get to be a medical porfessional they tack on two years for every year of medical school. you do your residency in the military. So he most likely wasnt quite done yet.

I think he started over ten years ago, but I'm not one hundred percent sure.

[KukriKhan]

it can be very low-key yet so hurtful and I really wanted to fight back, just couldn't do it with words, neither with fists, you can guess where this can lead, you need something powerful, something they cannot just talk away, something that shows them and possibly makes them sorry about what they did... Singling out the guys who treated you worse while sparing those who had at least some compassion is also a way to keep thinking you are actually sane, just punishing those ********* who are treating you badly.

I won't be surprised to read the FBI behavioralist's profile on our shooter going through exactly that kind of process, just before the shooting.

Soldiers have a rough job. They talk rough among themselves, or when they're encouraged (like by a shrink whose job is to get feelings to the surface so they can be dealt with). Maybe after the 5 thousand, 3 hundred and thirty second reference he heard about "those camel jockeys" (or worse) he forgot that compartmentalization thing he learned in med school, and took it personally. Then went to work loaded for bear, waiting for "the next redneck who DARES say anything bad about my people". Everybody knows I love Devastatin' Dave - imagine if your job was to meet, greet and fix 20 of him every day...

I'm not making excuses for the guy. Just trying to see the trigger. Soldiers have GOT to blow off steam. What's been damaged here (on top of the obvious deaths and wounded, ruined lives) is the underlying trust between soldiers; the assurance that despite the hardships endured and the horrors seen, THE ARMY (uniformed and vets, if not civilians) will institutionally understand. Now Officers, and in particular, Medical Officers, and even more particularly Med Officers with non-European nametags, will be more suspect by soldiers.

Not good. He killed a dozen, wounded what, 30? 31 I say: the 31st being soldier brotherhood. In that way, he did more damage than obl on 911.
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Meanwhile: ex-POTUS beats current POTUS to Disaster Site

[Major Robert Dump]

Why do my posts keep disappearing? Am i timing out on my crappy wi-fi in BFE? I don't think I said anything offensive for a change wtf

btw the post above mine is spot on. Teasing will always exist in the military and theres no way to fix it without firing everybody.

[Kadagar_AV]

Teasing is one thing... harassment and bullying something else entirely. As a military officer you should know about this.

I do not, however, think that ordinary teasing was what made this guy go get his guns.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Why do my posts keep disappearing? Am i timing out on my crappy wi-fi in BFE? I don't think I said anything offensive for a change

As far as I can tell, no moderator action has been taken against any of your posts.

Kukri, Husar, Sasaki - very good, insightful posts, thank you. I'm still formulating an opinion, so such thoughts are very interesting.

[Fisherking]

It is disturbing to me that a medical professional would do something like this. A Dr. who is supposed to be a healer.

Evidently he had served with the Army for at least 12 years in some capacity, but what his required service time was would only be speculation.

It is just my opinion but I think they guy brought on his own problems and did his religion a disservice by his actions.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE, Associated Press Writer Brett J. Blackledge, Associated Press Writer – Sat Nov 7, 3:35 am ET

WASHINGTON – He was by turns caring and contentious, a man quick to say "I am blessed" in casual greeting yet one who seemed to stew in discontent that he could not always keep to himself.

Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan, suspect in the assault that killed 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, and hurt 30, salved the emotional wounds of troops returning from war even as he objected to his own looming deployment to Afghanistan, where he was to counsel soldiers suffering from stress.

But Hasan argued with fellow soldiers who supported U.S. war policy, say those who know him professionally and personally. He was a counselor who once required counseling for himself because of trouble he had dealing with some patients, said a former boss.

Authorities on Friday seized Hasan's home computer, searched his apartment and took away a Dumpster as the 39-year-old Army major lay in a coma in the hospital, attached to a ventilator.

There are many unknowns about the man authorities say is responsible for the worst mass killing on a U.S. military base.
Most of all, his motive.

For six years before reporting for duty at Fort Hood, in July, Hasan worked at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center pursuing his career in psychiatry, as an intern, a resident and, last year, a fellow in disaster and preventive psychiatry. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001.

While an intern at Walter Reed, Hasan had some "difficulties" that required counseling and extra supervision, said Dr. Thomas Grieger, who was the training director at the time.

Grieger said privacy laws prevented him from going into details but noted that the problems had to do with Hasan's interactions with patients. He recalled Hasan as a "mostly very quiet" person who never spoke ill of the military or his country.
"He swore an oath of loyalty to the military," Grieger said. "I didn't hear anything contrary to those oaths."

But, more recently, federal agents grew suspicious.

At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

They had not confirmed Hasan is the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case.
Federal authorities seized Hasan's computer Friday during a search of his apartment in Killeen, Texas, said a U.S. military official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

His anger was noted by a classmate, who said Hasan "viewed the war against terror" as a "war against Islam."

Dr. Val Finnell, a classmate of Hasan's at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, attended a master's in public health program in 2007-2008. Finnell says he got to know Hasan because the group of public health students took an environmental health class together. At the end of the class, everyone had to give a presentation. Classmates wrote on topics such as dry cleaning chemicals and mold in homes, but Finnell said Hasan chose the war against terror. Finnell described Hasan as a "vociferous opponent" of the terror war. Finnell said Hasan told classmates he was "a Muslim first and an American second."

Hasan recently was involved in a spat with another Fort Hood soldier residing in his apartment complex, apparently related to his Muslim beliefs.

The manager of the complex, John Thompson, said the other soldier, John Van de Walker, allegedly keyed Hasan's car and also removed and tore up a bumper sticker that read "Allah is Love." Thompson said Van de Walker had been in Iraq and was upset to learn that Hasan was Muslim.

A report filed with Killeen police on Aug. 16 indicates that Hasan's vehicle, a 2006 Honda Civic, had been scratched by an unknown object causing an estimated $1,000 worth of damage. The report indicates that Van de Walker, 30, was arrested on Oct. 21 and charged with criminal mischief. The matter has been referred for prosecution, according to the report.

The phone number for Van de Walker wasn't in service Friday, and Thompson, the apartment manager, said he had moved out of the complex.

In an interview with The Washington Post, Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, Va., said he had been harassed about being a Muslim in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and he wanted to get out of the Army. She said he had sought a discharge for several years, and even offered to repay the cost of his medical training.
Hasan was in the preparation stage of deployment, which can take months, though Army spokeswoman Col. Cathy Abbott was uncertain when Hasan was to leave.

Abbott said Hasan was to deploy with an Army Reserve unit that provides what the military calls "behavioral health" counseling.

Another military official said Hasan had indicated he didn't want to go to Iraq but was willing to serve in Afghanistan. The official did not have authorization to discuss the matter publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.

A different military official said Hasan's family has Palestinian roots. There have been reports that he was harassed for his Muslim religion, but the official says there is no indication Hasan filed a complaint with military officials about that.

Alice Thompson, the manager at the apartment complex where Hasan lived, said he'd been living there since mid-August. Thompson said she didn't talk to him other than to say hello in passing. Thompson said he always answered her "How are you?" with "I am blessed."

Noel Hasan said her nephew "did not make many friends" and would say "the military was his life."

A cousin, Nader Hasan, told The New York Times that after counseling soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with post-traumatic stress disorder, Hasan knew the scars of war well.

"He was mortified by the idea of having to deploy," Nader Hasan said. "He had people telling him on a daily basis the horrors they saw over there."

Retired Army Col. Terry Lee, who said he worked with Hasan, told Fox News that Hasan had hoped President Barack Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Lee said Hasan got into frequent arguments with others in the armed forces who supported the wars, and had tried hard to prevent his pending deployment.

Col. Kimberly Kesling, deputy commander of clinical services at Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood, said she had known Hasan.

"You wouldn't think that someone who works in your facility and provided excellent care for his patients, which he did, could do something like this," Kesling said. She described him as "a quiet man who wouldn't seek the limelight" and said she was shocked when she heard he was the suspect in the shootings.

Hasan attended prayers regularly when he lived outside Washington, often in his Army uniform, said Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Md. He said Hasan was a lifelong Muslim.

"I got the impression that he was a committed soldier," Khan said. He spoke often with Hasan about Hasan's desire for a wife.

On a form filled out by those seeking spouses through a program at the mosque, Hasan listed his birthplace as Arlington, Va., but his nationality as Palestinian, Khan said.
"We hardly ever got to discussing politics," Khan said. "Mostly we were discussing religious matters, nothing too controversial, nothing like an extremist."

Hasan earned his rank of major in April 2008, according to a July 2008 Army Times article.

He served eight years as an enlisted soldier. Military records show he also served in the ROTC as an undergraduate at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg and received a bachelor's degree in biochemistry there in 1997.

But college officials said Friday that Hasan graduated with honors in biochemistry in 1995 and there was no record of him serving in any ROTC program.

He previously had attended Barstow Community College in Barstow, Calif., and Virginia Western Community College in Roanoke, Va., according to Virginia Tech records.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fort_h...ooting_suspect

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Teasing is one thing... harassment and bullying something else entirely. As a military officer you should know about this.

I do not, however, think that ordinary teasing was what made this guy go get his guns.

I don't either. As said, the man was an officer. I doubt he was being harassed by ordinary soldiers or by his superiors.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Harassment is one of those things that is largely in the eye of the beholder. I recall one discussion regarding moderator efforts in multiplayer fora wherein many of the MP posters were aghast that they COULDN'T belittle and verbally abuse other MPers in their posts without moderator intervention. Their version of things suggested that such interaction was normal and that nobody in that milieu would ever construe it as harassing or mean.

This is why all the harassment lawsuits require some "neutral" standard for judging harassment. Hasan may very well have felt harassed by a host of "little things" that in and of each "little thing" carried no meaning or intention to harass.

Kukri made an excellent point. After the 200th client who -- in processing their own angst resultant from combat stress -- appeared callous or even happy at harming people who very much looked like, sounded like, and believed as did Major Hasan, he may have had trouble compartmentalizing things.

We will learn much more over the coming months.


Evil:

The line between officers and enlisted in the USA is oddly blurred at points. Teasing and venting can take many forms and some of them, I am assured by those who have served, do function across categories. Perhaps Kukri or MRD could regale us with a tale or two regarding the likely results of an O-3 forcing a RSM to pop to attention in front of the troops or otherwise embarassing that NCO.

[Kadagar_AV]

From what little I have read, it seems like he got diapers thrown at his home (something about that being what his head dress looks like), he woke up one morning and found his car scratched, he got continous verbal abuse at the base...

Now, please DO NOT get me wrong. There is no excuse for what he did.

However, in a way I can relate to him.

From all the records, he seems like a guy who tried to do his country good. Something must have changed for him to start killing his fellow men.






So what is my actual point?

My point would be... These snaps could be anywhere, at any time. Why dont we all leave this with the lesson that you should care for, and look after, the very people around you in your daily life.

A small smile, or a compliment, or whatever nice gesture between people can have a huge impact on someones day. So don't be shy, try and, well, just be nice to one another.



I can't get one thought out of my head.... Imagine if the soldier came to work ready to kill people, and was met by someone who said "Hey mate, thanks, you really helped me".

You know, it could have been the difference between life and death for a lot of people.

So, make sure to appreciate the people around you, see everyone as a fellow human being. That way the odds of you ending up with a bullet in your head will diminish.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

From what little I have read, it seems like he got diapers thrown at his home (something about that being what his head dress looks like), he woke up one morning and found his car scratched, he got continous verbal abuse at the base...

Link? I haven't seen any North American sources backing that up yet.

[KukriKhan]

Link? I haven't seen any North American sources backing that up yet.

Army Times.com quoting the AP

The manager of the apartment complex said Hasan recently was involved in a spat with another soldier living there over Hasan’s religious beliefs. A bumper sticker that read “Allah is Love” was ripped off Hasan’s car, which was keyed, said the manager, John Thompson.

Thompson said the neighbor had been in Iraq and was upset to learn that Hasan was Muslim.

Another neighbor, 42-year-old Kim Rosenthal, said Hasan didn’t seem too upset by his scratched vehicle.

“He said it was Ramadan and that he had to forgive people,” Rosenthal said. “He forgave him and moved on.”

I haven't seen any diaper stories (yet).

[Subotan]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...-shooter-alive

An aide to Kay Bailey Hutchison, a Texas senator who was briefed by generals about the incident, said she had been told Hasan was upset about the deployment at the end of the year. Family and fellow officers said that he complained of harassment by other troops about his Middle Eastern ethnicity and Muslim faith.

Uh-oh.

...

[Devastatin Dave]

SO the general excuse from the blame others crowd is the guy's a pussy who couldn't handle some teasing and, even though he was never involved in combat but just by hearing it made him nuts and went off and killed a dozen folks.

LOL, thats a lot of bull squeeze to swallow to think all this brought him to this point. At the same time the blame others crowd completely refuse to believe that Islam had nothing to do with it.

Oh well, enjoyed the reminder why sometimes common sense has no place in intellectual circles. I hope the moon barker gets lined up in front of a firing squad regardless of how the bleeding hearts think he's a victim.

[Hax]

SO the general excuse from the blame others crowd is the guy's a pussy who couldn't handle some teasing and, even though he was never involved in combat but just by hearing it made him nuts and went off and killed a dozen folks.

There's a difference between "some teasing", which is virtually irremovable in any society, and constant harrassment, each and every day over an extended period of time.

LOL, thats a lot of bull squeeze to swallow to think all this brought him to this point. At the same time the blame others crowd completely refuse to believe that Islam had nothing to do with it.

No, harrassment has to do with stuff. It's degrading. It's really a precarious time for people who look Arab.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

SO the general excuse from the blame others crowd is the guy's a pussy who couldn't handle some teasing and, even though he was never involved in combat but just by hearing it made him nuts and went off and killed a dozen folks.

LOL, thats a lot of bull squeeze to swallow to think all this brought him to this point. At the same time the blame others crowd completely refuse to believe that Islam had nothing to do with it.

Oh well, enjoyed the reminder why sometimes common sense has no place in intellectual circles. I hope the moon barker gets lined up in front of a firing squad regardless of how the bleeding hearts think he's a victim.

I believe they use a hanging for this kind of offense, though I haven't checked in a while.

Okay, having checked, it is now apparent that lethal injection would be the likely method. No Danny Deever or "Don't make a mess of it" stuff.

[Hosakawa Tito]

According to some accounts, the shooter's anti-mission feelings were known by some, but political correctness got in the way of reporting/acting on the warning signs. The Article.

The quote:

Danquah assumed the military's chain of command knew about Hasan's doubts, which had been known for more than a year to classmates in a graduate military medical program. His fellow students complained to the faculty about Hasan's "anti-American propaganda," but said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim student kept officers from filing a formal written complaint.

[Centurion1]

^ i would be afraid to do the same thing for the same reasons. there is a point when political correctness goes too far. usually ALL of political correctness goes to far.