Recruiting Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou

**king of thracia** · 11-07-2009, 15:03

They are linked to the Seleukid cataphract reforms. Search for that on the forums, there is a console command to help you trigger the reforms instead of having to lose battles in such and such a way.

**athanaric** · 11-07-2009, 15:53

Originally posted by FAQ:
-At least year 253BC
-Two different generals must lose a large battle (including a loss to the general's bodyguard) against a faction that uses cataphracts (Pahlav, Armenia, Baktria).

Move the generals affected by this into a nearby city and let them stay there for some turns. AFAIK this should help with getting those two units.

**XSamatan** · 11-07-2009, 16:46

you can give traits with the console (if you want to represent the experience that generals recieved as they were fighting against cataphracts), the trait is "ImpressedByCats"

XSsamatan

**Marcus Ulpius** · 11-07-2009, 22:57

Thanks for the info, that's what I suspected. I just didn't think that cata reforms could give another unit except Hellenistic catas. I hate to use a console, but I'll probably do just that. I think it's better than losing a battle on purpose to half dead Pahlava, who has just one province now, or start a war with Saka, when I have a war with Carthage and I should prepare the invasion of Macedonia. In any case, after a long war with Pahlava (like 50 years), it's logical that Seleucids would see that catas are useful on the battlefield. Personally, I'd change the trait condition from "losing a large battle to catas" to fighting 20 or something large/medium battles against catas. After all, it's not necessary lose the battle against the enemy to understand that you can learn something from him.

**Knight of Heaven** · 11-08-2009, 01:35

Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius

Thanks for the info, that's what I suspected. I just didn't think that cata reforms could give another unit except Hellenistic catas. I hate to use a console, but I'll probably do just that. I think it's better than losing a battle on purpose to half dead Pahlava, who has just one province now, or start a war with Saka, when I have a war with Carthage and I should prepare the invasion of Macedonia. In any case, after a long war with Pahlava (like 50 years), it's logical that Seleucids would see that catas are useful on the battlefield. Personally, I'd change the trait condition from "losing a large battle to catas" to fighting 20 or something large/medium battles against catas. After all, it's not necessary lose the battle against the enemy to understand that you can learn something from him.

They are somekind of kataphracts on foot.

**Apázlinemjó** · 11-08-2009, 10:32

Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven

They are somekind of kataphracts on foot.

Aye, even elite falxmen have problem with cracking them open.

**Ludens** · 11-08-2009, 16:02

Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven

They are somekind of kataphracts on foot.

For the record: they are tied to the cataphract reform to delay their appearance, not because they were inspired by cataphracts. They are super-heavy thorakitai rather than dismounted cataphracts.

**the man with no name** · 11-11-2009, 02:32

Originally Posted by Ludens

For the record: they are tied to the cataphract reform to delay their appearance, not because they were inspired by cataphracts. They are super-heavy thorakitai rather than dismounted cataphracts.

In fact, the unit discription says the inspiration came from the tales of the iberian shock infantry(dom something right?)

**Knight of Heaven** · 11-11-2009, 13:00

Originally Posted by Ludens

For the record: they are tied to the cataphract reform to delay their appearance, not because they were inspired by cataphracts. They are super-heavy thorakitai rather than dismounted cataphracts.

Yes, obviously, they are inspired by the others thorakitai, but when one use then in the field one cant stop to wonder, and in a sence they are kats on foot. As the meaning of Kataphracts is Armoured head to toe. ( im not sure, but i think it is) so semanticaly there isnt much diference. As their use on the batlefield. Regarding infantry role off course. its jus an analogy.

In fact, the unit discription says the inspiration came from the tales of the iberian shock infantry(dom something right?)

wich in fact i dont belive it that ever existed. At least i dont find any references to it on iberian warfare.
And i have some dificulty placing the thorakitai Agematos historicaly. Regarding that i love those 2 units :)

**Ignopotens** · 11-08-2009, 10:51

Originally Posted by Marcus Ulpius

In any case, after a long war with Pahlava (like 50 years), it's logical that Seleucids would see that catas are useful on the battlefield. Personally, I'd change the trait condition from "losing a large battle to catas" to fighting 20 or something large/medium battles against catas. After all, it's not necessary lose the battle against the enemy to understand that you can learn something from him.

Well, to play the devil's advocate a bit here, no, you wouldn't necessarily adopt cataphracts just from fighting them often. If you won every battle you fought against them, why would you adopt that fighting style? I'd think it makes sense to lose a few battles against them before you adjust your own way of fighting to counter (or reflect) it.