Recruiting Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou

[Marcus Ulpius]

The question is quite simple and straightforward. I play as Seleucids, I've built lvl 5 barracks in Seleucia. The barrack description says that I should be able to recruit those guys, but I can't. Is there some event that triggers them? Btw, "March of Time" already happened, so it can't be that. Were they removed from this version of EB, because I'm absolutely sure I've seen them in action in my Macedonian campaign, when I was fighting the AS; I'm not sure what version of EB it was.

[Zarax]

They might be linked to the kataphract reforms, hopefully a more knowledgeable member will be able to give better info.
Try loosing a few battles with some sharp generals against parthia, saka or baktria, that should hopefully trigger them if you have enough cavalry in your armies.

[king of thracia]

They are linked to the Seleukid cataphract reforms. Search for that on the forums, there is a console command to help you trigger the reforms instead of having to lose battles in such and such a way.

[athanaric]

Originally posted by FAQ:
-At least year 253BC
-Two different generals must lose a large battle (including a loss to the general's bodyguard) against a faction that uses cataphracts (Pahlav, Armenia, Baktria).

Move the generals affected by this into a nearby city and let them stay there for some turns. AFAIK this should help with getting those two units.

[XSamatan]

you can give traits with the console (if you want to represent the experience that generals recieved as they were fighting against cataphracts), the trait is "ImpressedByCats"

XSsamatan

[Marcus Ulpius]

Thanks for the info, that's what I suspected. I just didn't think that cata reforms could give another unit except Hellenistic catas. I hate to use a console, but I'll probably do just that. I think it's better than losing a battle on purpose to half dead Pahlava, who has just one province now, or start a war with Saka, when I have a war with Carthage and I should prepare the invasion of Macedonia. In any case, after a long war with Pahlava (like 50 years), it's logical that Seleucids would see that catas are useful on the battlefield. Personally, I'd change the trait condition from "losing a large battle to catas" to fighting 20 or something large/medium battles against catas. After all, it's not necessary lose the battle against the enemy to understand that you can learn something from him.

[Knight of Heaven]

Thanks for the info, that's what I suspected. I just didn't think that cata reforms could give another unit except Hellenistic catas. I hate to use a console, but I'll probably do just that. I think it's better than losing a battle on purpose to half dead Pahlava, who has just one province now, or start a war with Saka, when I have a war with Carthage and I should prepare the invasion of Macedonia. In any case, after a long war with Pahlava (like 50 years), it's logical that Seleucids would see that catas are useful on the battlefield. Personally, I'd change the trait condition from "losing a large battle to catas" to fighting 20 or something large/medium battles against catas. After all, it's not necessary lose the battle against the enemy to understand that you can learn something from him.

They are somekind of kataphracts on foot.

[Apázlinemjó]

They are somekind of kataphracts on foot.

Aye, even elite falxmen have problem with cracking them open.

[Ignopotens]

In any case, after a long war with Pahlava (like 50 years), it's logical that Seleucids would see that catas are useful on the battlefield. Personally, I'd change the trait condition from "losing a large battle to catas" to fighting 20 or something large/medium battles against catas. After all, it's not necessary lose the battle against the enemy to understand that you can learn something from him.

Well, to play the devil's advocate a bit here, no, you wouldn't necessarily adopt cataphracts just from fighting them often. If you won every battle you fought against them, why would you adopt that fighting style? I'd think it makes sense to lose a few battles against them before you adjust your own way of fighting to counter (or reflect) it.

[Ludens]

They are somekind of kataphracts on foot.

For the record: they are tied to the cataphract reform to delay their appearance, not because they were inspired by cataphracts. They are super-heavy thorakitai rather than dismounted cataphracts.

[the man with no name]

For the record: they are tied to the cataphract reform to delay their appearance, not because they were inspired by cataphracts. They are super-heavy thorakitai rather than dismounted cataphracts.

In fact, the unit discription says the inspiration came from the tales of the iberian shock infantry(dom something right?)

[ziegenpeter]

In fact, the unit discription says the inspiration came from the tales of the iberian shock infantry(dom something right?)

Dosidataskeli

[Knight of Heaven]

For the record: they are tied to the cataphract reform to delay their appearance, not because they were inspired by cataphracts. They are super-heavy thorakitai rather than dismounted cataphracts.

Yes, obviously, they are inspired by the others thorakitai, but when one use then in the field one cant stop to wonder, and in a sence they are kats on foot. As the meaning of Kataphracts is Armoured head to toe. ( im not sure, but i think it is) so semanticaly there isnt much diference. As their use on the batlefield. Regarding infantry role off course. its jus an analogy.

In fact, the unit discription says the inspiration came from the tales of the iberian shock infantry(dom something right?)

wich in fact i dont belive it that ever existed. At least i dont find any references to it on iberian warfare.
And i have some dificulty placing the thorakitai Agematos historicaly. Regarding that i love those 2 units :)

[ziegenpeter]

True, Dosi and TAB are the best looking inf and now they are maybe not real.
Its like learning that you are adopted...

[Olaf The Great]

From what I've heard they did find some of the fishscale armor in Ireland, and that the Dosidataskeli probably existed as a bodyguard, but that's it, a bodyguard. They would be too rare to represent in the Mod.

Same for the Irish MAN-TANK.

[Knight of Heaven]

From what I've heard they did find some of the fishscale armor in Ireland, and that the Dosidataskeli probably existed as a bodyguard, but that's it, a bodyguard. They would be too rare to represent in the Mod.

Same for the Irish MAN-TANK.

yes its natural that if they find it in ireland, probably would be used in Iberia asweal, considering the history of celt imigration between the peninsula,and the island. But i agree would be too rare to be represented in game, as it is.

[ziegenpeter]

Well in EBII they could have a very slow replenish rate.
OR Luso+Casse are going to need some new supernice tankish units...?

[Olaf The Great]

Well in EBII they could have a very slow replenish rate.
OR Luso+Casse are going to need some new supernice tankish units...?

I'm sure a modder would create all the cut units from EB1 if asked, but they're not coming back officially.

[Cute Wolf]

Is some faction emerge in north Iberia, we can sure that this faction got Dosidastakelli as bodyguards...

BTW, those super heavy spears has it's own use to spearheading bridge assault and pushing through breaches in walls... otherwise, they're best placed on a flank that you didn't want to micro too much, as they could hold their own against anything... But creating a whole army out of TABs, Hetairois, and Toxotai Kretikoi has its own happiness... as you can take anything without much problem, except they are gravely exspensive to create and maintain...

[antisocialmunky]

TABs go down quite easily when they are out in the open and running around and you have cavalry.

[Cute Wolf]

TABs go down quite easily when they are out in the open and running around and you have cavalry.

But only if "that" cavalry is Katanks... as they slaughter normal heavy cavalry in droves.... I once put one unit of them on defensive position and they sucessfully repel 3 Agema Klerouchon Hippeon that way... but Against my Griphanvars or Ysaninu Aysiramnja... well, that was a really different things...

[MButcher]

Slightly off topic - what made the EB team change their name from Thorakitai Argyraspide to Thorakitai Agemata Basilikou?

[Ludens]

In fact, the unit discription says the inspiration came from the tales of the iberian shock infantry(dom something right?)

The unit description of the Dosidataskeli said that, but I doubt that is true. It seems unlikely that the Seleucids would have modelled their elite unit on some barbarians from the other side of the world. Especially not since we see no influence of the Iberians on the rest of the Seleucid military, and those nations that did have a strong Iberian influence (Carthage and Rome) did not adopt super-armoured infantry.

The chainmail veil is unique, but the Iberians did not use chain-mail for facial protection (as far as I know) so there is no reason to suppose an Iberian origin for this unit. The current TAB does look a lot like the Dosidataskeli but that's because the team adjusted the model so it could be used for both. The original simply looked like an elite thorakitai. Which it is.

Is some faction emerge in north Iberia, we can sure that this faction got Dosidastakelli as bodyguards...

The team's Iberian FC wrote that they probably won't make it to EB2. I can't find the post right now, but the reason was IIRC because they are too obscure.