More Important to Modern Western Liberalism:1776, 1789, 1848

[Strike For The South]

No, I think you are wrong. They did not care about their country more than their ideals, they were just smart enough to know that they needed their country for their ideals. If they did not bring everyone together, then they would have nothing at all, so instead they compromised and made a system where most people had real freedom, and where it was possible to work peaceably to get freedom for those who did not. Ideals are fine, but if you believe in them enough, then you will do what is necessary to make sure that the government best represents them. New boss definately not the same as the old boss. Sure, they still had priviledge, but the fact that blacks are no longer slaves and that you do not have to have property to vote shows that they cared enough to make a system that enough support to work, and where there was political freedom enough to change the old way of doing things.
You work with what you got. If they could not get the slave holding states into the Union, then America would have fallen apart and the Brits would have hit us while we were down.

As far as the French, I have no doubt that lots of them (I think many of their writings show this) truely believed in their ideals, but they were not smart enough to do it correctly and opportunists took over in the chaos. Everyone wanted what they could get. I know that many would disagree with me, but I think it was a total disaster. Robespierre and all the others cared about the nation (that they would have absolute control of), but not so much the ideals. It was all corrupt politics.

Most people had real freedom? That's a crock. Blacks were enslaved, Indians were being murderd daily and 95% of the population couldn't vote. I haven't even mentioned Shays or the whsikey rebillion or the Alien and Sedition acts.

Early America was nothing but an unadulterated power grab. To say we embodied Libreal and enlightinment ideals is silly. We ruled worse than the British ever did.

The French stuck to there guns and in the short run it hurt but in the long run they freed all of Europe.

Edit: People think Obamas bad. I would love to see what they though of Adams!