Iphikratian Armies

[Neraeos]

Hi folks,

I'm playing in a Hellenon Koinon campaign, and up to now I've been a hoplite fan, with the core of my armies consisting of classical hoplites backed up with long-range archers, with a few units of whatever shock cavalry I can find.

However, I would like to experiment with Iphikratian troops, such as the thorakitai hoplitai, the thureophoroi and the thorakitai. To date I do not think I have been using them properly. Do you have any advice as to how to use these troops in battle, how (if) they mesh with hoplite troops, and sample army compositions wherein they are used?

Cheers,
Neraeos

[athanaric]

They are good all-round troops and better on walls than "real" Hoplites (because of secondary swords -> Thorakitai Hoplitai have an AP kopis!).
IMO Classical Hoplites are more useful on the offense or as a mobile anti-cavalry force, whereas the Iphikratean types are slightly more useful against infantry.

[Scipio Germanicus]

Depends on who I'm fighting. Against the phalangitai of the successors I use Hoplitai as holding troops and the AP kopis-wielding troops to flank or deal with any heavier troops. Against the Romans however I tend to use Thorakitai, Thureophoroi, etc... as they seem to do better against their legions. For the lightly armoured barbarians, the javelins of the Thureophoroi are devestating, especially when followed up with a charge. So in general I guess I prefer them.

On a side note, what exactly does Thorakitai and Iphikratous mean?

[Lysandros]

"Thorax" means not only torso as you may probably know, but also the armour which protects it. "Thorakizo" therefore means "to get armoured" or "to get dressed with the armour" and that's where Thorakites (sg.), Thorakitai (pl.) surely comes from.
Iphikratous is the genitive sg. of the general's and mercenary leader's name "Iphikrates", so it means "of Iphikrates". Iphikratous Hoplitai could be translated as hoplites according to Iphikrates.
I just saw that even shoes for soldiers were named Iphikratides.

[Scipio Germanicus]

Thanks a lot.

[seienchin]

The thorakitai holitai do not have anything to do with Iphikrates or modern military technology right?
Anyway an army made of iphikrates hoplitai and thorakitai and thurepoi is sure a lot of fun to play.

[Celtic_Punk]

They are good all-round troops and better on walls than "real" Hoplites (because of secondary swords -> Thorakitai Hoplitai have an AP kopis!).
IMO Classical Hoplites are more useful on the offense or as a mobile anti-cavalry force, whereas the Iphikratean types are slightly more useful against infantry.

youve got it right somewhat. the classical hoplites are actually surprisingly flexible. they can attack or defend better than 80% of troops they encounter, especially in a city holding wall to wall in a street. Doesn't matter if its infantry or cavalry.

[moonburn]

the advantage of the iphikrate troop types is that they are better armed with swords and better armoured for the most part

but their spear being used underhand instead of an upperhand way makes them less effectice with the spear then the traditional hoplites so when using them remember to switch to the swords unleass it´s against cavalry

i personally prefer the thorokitai and thurepoi instead of the hoplite versions due to their javelins wich on a long batleline in an huge batle can almost rout out the weakest enemies troops giving you a numbers advantage that allows you to flank better/more flexibility

this is even more true against barbarians altough the kretikoi archers are a must to have against any barbaroi army

altough i must admit i use the skirmishers (not the cheapest one´s i mean the other one´s) as i use my iphikrates troop type except that with them i don´t need to hit alt to change to swords since they imediatly do (on a regular classical greek army i let my skirmishers take the 1st blow and fight it off for a while before retreating behinde the real hoplite resting for a bit and then go on the flanking manouvers)

[seienchin]

I think you mean the peltastai?
They are incredible effective as well as their thracian counterparts. Perfect flanking troops

[moonburn]

indeed expecially those thracian one´s who can grind down cavalry on melee wich when you´re on the opposite side can be quite an hassle