Disbelief of evolution on the rise...but not in the US

[jabarto]

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/id...ise/?page=full

But there is another creationist movement whose influence is growing, and which is fueling challenges to science in countries where Christianity has little sway: Islamic creationism. Campaigners in countries like Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, and Indonesia have fought the teaching of evolution in schools there, sometimes with great success. Creationist conferences have been held in Pakistan, and moderate Islamic clerics are on record publicly condemning Darwin’s ideas. A recent study of Muslim university students in the Netherlands showed that most rejected evolution. And driven in part by a mysterious Turkish publishing organization, Islamic creationism books are hot sellers at bookstores throughout the Muslim world.

It’s hard to say exactly how much support the theory of evolution enjoys in the world’s Muslim countries, but it’s definitely not very much. In one 2006 study by American political scientists, people in 34 industrial nations were asked whether they agreed or disagreed with the idea that human beings evolved from earlier life forms. Turkey, the only Muslim country in the survey, showed the lowest levels of support - barely a quarter of Turks said they agreed. By comparison, at least 80 percent of those surveyed in Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, and France agreed. (The United States ranked second lowest, after Turkey, at 40 percent.) Turkey is widely seen as the most culturally liberal Muslim nation, and on attitudes about evolution, other polling has borne this out: A recent study of religious attitudes found that only 16 percent of Indonesians, 14 percent of Pakistanis, and 8 percent of Egyptians believed in evolution.

At first I thought that the only people who didn't believe in evolution were a very small handful of Protestants in the southern USA. I thought that this was just another one of those issues for which people in Europe laugh at us. I was a fool; idiocy respects no borders.

I was going to post a lot more here, but it essentially came down to a rant; I'll post it if you want to hear it but it's really not that interesting.

[Devastatin Dave]

Evolve some balls and post it.

[jabarto]

Evolve some balls and post it.

Where the hell did that come from?

SO ANYWAY this issue is rather near and dear to my heart because it exemplifies human arrogance and narrowmindedness in a way that few other things do. Evolution is a fact; the evidence in its favor is overwhelming. There is more support for evolution than any other theory in existence. So it strikes me as hubris in the utmost when people claim that evolution wrong, as if they and they alone have found some oh so obvious fault with it. I've actually known people who don't believe in evolution - of course, one of them believed she was destined to give birth to the savior of the planet in 2012, but that's not really important - and their arguments can typically be distilled to "I didn't come from a fish/space dust/monkeys." So it really is a matter of pride more than anything. And it stands in the way of all honest scientific progress.

Of course, you can't blame this entirely on the fundies. Public education in this country is terrible when it comes to science, and most people who are knowledgeable in these matters don't have the time to give a Bio 101 lesson to everyone who asks, so it's understandable that some vainglorious fools would be ignorant of science. That doesn't make it right, though.

Also, I'm sure most people here know about it, but if you ever find yourself debating with a fundie, there's a great site called talkorigins.org that has a lot of info on evolution. Even if not, it's still good to check out once in a while to keep the mind sharp.

[Sarmatian]

I find it hard to believe that people actually argue with someone supporting creationism. It's totally and utterly pointless. They may believe gravity doesn't exist but it would still hurt if they fall from a 10th story.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Where the hell did that come from?

SO ANYWAY this issue is rather near and dear to my heart because it exemplifies human arrogance and narrowmindedness in a way that few other things do. Evolution is a fact; the evidence in its favor is overwhelming. There is more support for evolution than any other theory in existence. So it strikes me as hubris in the utmost when people claim that evolution wrong, as if they and they alone have found some oh so obvious fault with it. I've actually known people who don't believe in evolution - of course, one of them believed she was destined to give birth to the savior of the planet in 2012, but that's not really important - and their arguments can typically be distilled to "I didn't come from a fish/space dust/monkeys." So it really is a matter of pride more than anything. And it stands in the way of all honest scientific progress.

Of course, you can't blame this entirely on the fundies. Public education in this country is terrible when it comes to science, and most people who are knowledgeable in these matters don't have the time to give a Bio 101 lesson to everyone who asks, so it's understandable that some vainglorious fools would be ignorant of science. That doesn't make it right, though.

Also, I'm sure most people here know about it, but if you ever find yourself debating with a fundie, there's a great site called talkorigins.org that has a lot of info on evolution. Even if not, it's still good to check out once in a while to keep the mind sharp.

The problem is that the evidence is all scientific, not concrete, and it isn't conclusive. Also, evolution is of no apparent use to most people, so they do not feel compelled to believe it.

Add to that the antagonism many popular Scientists have towards religion currently, making it an either or, and it's not surprising the theory has become increasingly unpopular.

[Fragony]

If they want to believe that fine with me, doesn't affect me in any way. I think people who believe in the Darwin theory are usually much more intrusive and intolerant towards creationists then visa versa. Why they believe it is beyond me but why should I care. But some do, why.

[Cute Wolf]

Yeah... I once get into debate with them when they held some kind of "there is no evolution seminar"... and what can I say, they are stubborn beyond belief, as they start saying that those Homo-Blah-Blah-Blah are not humans, but deformed monkeys or they are humans that their god has cursed into monkeys.

[Lemur]

Also, evolution is of no apparent use to most people, so they do not feel compelled to believe it.

Hmmm. It's the foundation of all modern biology. Do you like going to the doctor and not getting a mercury poultice or a leeching? Thank evolution. Do you like your ibuprofen or acetaminophen? Thank evolution. Sheesh, do you like having selective breeding with horses, dogs, and every grain we eat? Thank evolution.

People just get their scrotums in a twist over the idea that evoution might apply to humans. That's what gets them all worked up. Fine then. Evolution applies to bacteria, insects, fungi, plants and animals, but we are special and different.

There. Does that make you happy?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Hmmm. It's the foundation of all modern biology. Do you like going to the doctor and not getting a mercury poultice or a leeching? Thank evolution. Do you like your ibuprofen or acetaminophen? Thank evolution. Sheesh, do you like having selective breeding with horses, dogs, and every grain we eat? Thank evolution.

People just get their scrotums in a twist over the idea that evoution might apply to humans. That's what gets them all worked up. Fine then. Evolution applies to bacteria, insects, fungi, plants and animals, but we are special and different.

There. Does that make you happy?

Philip is right, taking ibuprofen doesn't require a belief in evolution. Believing in evolution doesn't make you special.

I would compare evolution denial to football fans claiming their team got robbed by the refs when they didn't. Yes, it's often obviously incorrect, but they believe it because they want to and there isn't much harm in it. Everyone holds some beliefs like that, it's human nature. Not to be applauded, but it is silly to accuse them all of idiocy.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Hmmm. It's the foundation of all modern biology. Do you like going to the doctor and not getting a mercury poultice or a leeching? Thank evolution. Do you like your ibuprofen or acetaminophen? Thank evolution. Sheesh, do you like having selective breeding with horses, dogs, and every grain we eat? Thank evolution.

People just get their scrotums in a twist over the idea that evoution might apply to humans. That's what gets them all worked up. Fine then. Evolution applies to bacteria, insects, fungi, plants and animals, but we are special and different.

There. Does that make you happy?

Please less invective, I had an argument with a Norwegian friend about "Objective truth" yesterday which resulted in him telling me to do something untoward with my "Christian worldview."

People get upset when I tell them I can slaughter a sheep, and can describe the process in detail, but they still eat chops. You don't need to believe in evolution unless you are a biologist, just like you don't need to believe in the Big Bang or Quantom Theory unless you are a physicist.

[Louis VI the Fat]

one of them believed she was destined to give birth to the savior of the planet in 2012

Haha! Stupid fundies.

It is I who'll save the planet in 2012, not some baby.


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Hmmm...on second thought, it does improve your chances of getting some in 2011. I must keep an eye out. Maybe hang out more in New Age clubs by then.

[Viking]

Haha! Stupid fundies.

It is I who'll save the planet in 2012, not some baby.


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Hmmm...on second thought, it does improve your chances of getting some in 2011. I must keep an eye out. Maybe hang out more in New Age clubs by then.

No need to wait until 2011, start faking you spirituality today.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Evolve some balls and post it.

Where the hell did that come from?

Don't worry, that's just Dave being charming. No offense intended, I'm sure. I think he likes you.

[Devastatin Dave]

Don't worry, that's just Dave being charming. No offense intended, I'm sure. I think he likes you.

If someone comes in here and says a large segment of the world's population is suffering from "idiocy" but doesn't fully explain thier position, regardless of they say its a "rant" they need to have their habitat adjust in a way for their scrotum to turn into a testical holding organ. I don't believe in evolution, not because I'm a creationist, but because their are as many holes in the theory as a brothel in Amstradam. If someone wants to show off to an international forum about how "enlightened" he is compared to us knuckle dragging neanderthals that want bend to his beliefs, bring forth thy nutz and speaketh upon thine flock.

and yes, I like the new guy.

[Fisherking]

To a cretin extent Dave is right...

There are examples of micro evolution but we have no firm evidence of macro evolution.

Believing either in evolution or what ever is an act of faith.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Don't be stupid, nobody can save us from 2012.

Anyway, I'm not surprised at the findings of the OP. I remember a BBC article that said something like 1/3 of people in the UK do not believe in evolution, and obviously the number of fundamentalists here is nowhere near as high as 1/3 of the population.

I know a few non-religious people that don't believe in evolution, the idea we evolved from monkeys just seems stupid to them.

Also, I'm sure most people here know about it, but if you ever find yourself debating with a fundie, there's a great site called talkorigins.org that has a lot of info on evolution. Even if not, it's still good to check out once in a while to keep the mind sharp.

Bah! That's not real debating. I could just as easily go to a fundamentalist site and get a few facts and quasi-theories and through them around with some Dawkinesque guy doing the same. How many people having these atheist v fundamentalist (which is what they are usually about) flame wars on the magical world of the internet actually have a solid, well-rounded understanding of the theory of evolution, as opposed to just shouting some facts that prove how right they are?

[Mooks]

Bah! That's not real debating. I could just as easily go to a fundamentalist site and get a few facts and quasi-theories and through them around with some Dawkinesque guy doing the same. How many people having these atheist v fundamentalist (which is what they are usually about) flame wars on the magical world of the internet actually have a solid, well-rounded understanding of the theory of evolution, as opposed to just shouting some facts that prove how right they are?

Fun fact though, if you actually go to Richard Dawkins official website, your be corrected quick on any arguments you have against evolution. Theyre not kidding over there with science.

[Strike For The South]

At first I thought that the only people who didn't believe in evolution were a very small handful of Protestants in the southern USA. I thought that this was just another one of those issues for which people in Europe laugh at us. I was a fool; idiocy respects no borders.

Ah yes because Europeans can do no wrong and southeners are holding the country back.

Stereotyping isn't very fun when simply take what you see from hollywood and put write it down.