RIP

[Ser Clegane]

Whoever wishes to discuss the original topic should please do so.

Posting just to troll will not be accepted.

Thanks

[Rhyfelwyr]

Pavle took over the church in 1990 just as the collapse of communism ended years of state policy of repressing religion. He often spoke against violence in the ethnic wars Orthodox Serbs fought against Catholic Croats and Bosnian Muslims during the bloodiest conflict in Europe since World War II.

"God help us understand that we are human beings and that we must live as human beings, so that peace would come into our country and bring an end to the killing," Pavle had appealed — mostly in vain — in 1991 as fighting raged between Serbs and Croats over disputed territories in Croatia.

"It is only the will of the devil that is served by this war," the patriarch was quoted as saying in 1992 but stopped short of naming names, notably not going explicitly against former President Slobodan Milosevic's ultra-nationalist policies, which triggered the wars.

But according to Dawkins, there would have been no conflict in the former Yugoslavia if it wasn't for the Catholics/Orthodox/Muslims killing each other because of their faiths...

[Sarmatian]

RIP.

Pavle was a man of peace and tolerance, always advocating against violence and hatred. I'm not a religious man, for all I care, organized religion may go to ****, but I respected him. He was a good Christian.

His possible successor will probably be a hard-liner but the influence of the church in Serbia is really minor, one of the few good things left over from communism. It may affect some domestic issues but it won't be important enough to spill over the borders, so to speak. It won't affect foreign relations in any way.

But according to Dawkins, there would have been no conflict in the former Yugoslavia if it wasn't for the Catholics/Orthodox/Muslims killing each other because of their faiths...

Ironically, it was nationality, not faith. In general religion doesn't play important role in former Yugoslavia. It's more of a new thing for nationalists, something that reaffirms their nationality, Serb/Orthodox, Croat/Catholic, Bosniak/Muslim. People in Serbia screaming in agony over Albanians destroying holy places in Kosovo didn't lift a finger to do something when those places were left to rot during communism.

[Vuk]

RIP.

Pavle was a man of peace and tolerance, always advocating against violence and hatred. I'm not a religious man, for all I care, organized religion may go to ****, but I respected him. He was a good Christian.

His possible successor will probably be a hard-liner but the influence of the church in Serbia is really minor, one of the few good things left over from communism. It may affect some domestic issues but it won't be important enough to spill over the borders, so to speak. It won't affect foreign relations in any way.

Good to here that Sarmatian. I honestly believe that organized religion should not affect the government either. The way the article was worded kinda made me think its importance may have been greater. I meant those questions esp for you. :P

[Rhyfelwyr]

Ironically, it was nationality, not faith. In general religion doesn't play important role in former Yugoslavia. It's more of a new thing for nationalists, something that reaffirms their nationality, Serb/Orthodox, Croat/Catholic, Bosniak/Muslim. People in Serbia screaming in agony over Albanians destroying holy places in Kosovo didn't lift a finger to do something when those places were left to rot during communism.

That was what I had gathered, I think it's a bit of a cheap shot to use examples of conflicts as evidence of how evil religion is. At the end of the day, the religious beliefs of people tend to be more a product of the society they live in that a major force in directing it. This is certainly what I've found looking at the various religious and political views throughout the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

[Azathoth]

The only news about religion i listen to is when there's going to be a new pope and i await the death of Khomeini with excitement.

Khomeini died 20 years ago. Are you talking about Khamanei?

[Centurion1]

Khomeini died 20 years ago. Are you talking about Khamanei?

OH CRAP I MISSED IT!!!!!!!!!!

(i was wondering if anyone would catch it.......)

The Yugoslav conflict was more a fight over land and nationalism than it was about religion. Dont get me wrong religion played a role but it wasnt the single factor. It was more of a build up than an actual reason for war.

[Fragony]

OH CRAP I MISSED IT!!!!!!!!!!

(i was wondering if anyone would catch it.......)

The Yugoslav conflict was more a fight over land and nationalism than it was about religion. Dont get me wrong religion played a role but it wasnt the single factor. It was more of a build up than an actual reason for war.

Atracted a lot of foreign fighters, read the new edition of Gilles Kepel's excellent 'Jihad' it has a few additions.

[Subotan]

i await the death of Khomeini with excitement.

So, it's OK to celebrate the death of one religious leader (Who incidentally is more influential and revered,Whether we like it or not), but not another?
Hmmm. I'm just puzzled as to what the boundary between the two is.

Ironically, it was nationality, not faith. In general religion doesn't play important role in former Yugoslavia. It's more of a new thing for nationalists, something that reaffirms their nationality, Serb/Orthodox, Croat/Catholic, Bosniak/Muslim. People in Serbia screaming in agony over Albanians destroying holy places in Kosovo didn't lift a finger to do something when those places were left to rot during communism.

Would those nationalist divisions have existed without those religious decisions? AFAIK Serbian and Croatian are practically the same language (Apart from the alphabet), and although I'm no linguist, it appears from a cursory glance at Wikipedia to be no more different from each other as Bayernisch is from Hochdeutsch.

[Centurion1]

Ironically, it was nationality, not faith. In general religion doesn't play important role in former Yugoslavia. It's more of a new thing for nationalists, something that reaffirms their nationality, Serb/Orthodox, Croat/Catholic, Bosniak/Muslim. People in Serbia screaming in agony over Albanians destroying holy places in Kosovo didn't lift a finger to do something when those places were left to rot during communism.

the differecnes stretch far far far more than a mere language. and there are subtle differences especially in conversational forms of the languages.

and no it isnt right i think khomeini dying is a good thing as a religious leader, though as a man he left little to be desired (i dont like him in other words...... strongly)