How do you fight?

[IncubusDragon]

I'm curious about the similarities and differences there may be in how we approach fighting our battles. Do we stick to the same old tried-and-tested methods that we are comfortable with, or risk all with an audacious manouever?

I'm quite new to M2TW, but I cut my teeth playing multiplayer with Viking Invasion (VI) back in the good old days when I had a decent internet connection, so my main battle tactic is based upon the old VI online battles. I know there are folk out there who have only played single-player and so might not know what I mean, so in the following clip, I added some captions to give a general insight into my general tactics/reasonings (I tried grouping my infantry, something I rarely do)...

me fighting the battle (with captions) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsZg-RQ6UM8
...or...
edited highlights put to music (no captions) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mov5HlFdzIw
(you guessed it, I've been bitten by the movie bug after installing Fraps!)

My favourite "general purpose" army is Hungarian... good infantry and solid cavalry, including my favourite unit - Hungarian Nobles. Hungarian Nobles are horse archers that have a bit more stuffing in them than many other horse archer units, and can therefore double-up as fast light cavalry that can be critical in the outcome of melee combat when used right.

I'm aware that my YouTube clips aren't of the highest resolution, so here's a copy of the battle replay if you want to have a better look... http://www.mediafire.com/file/eyibzm...ngarianWin.rpy (simply save into your "replays" folder)

If you fancy fighting the battle yourself, here's the battle file... http://www.mediafire.com/file/5zrrnjxiiry/Hungary (simply save into your "custom" folder)

It'll be my intention to add any findings to this thread as I experiment in single player... but don't let that put you off adding anything of your own too!

[Braden]

My tactics have remained largely unchanged in the single player campaign since Shogun.

A core of good, solid infantry that are better at holding the line than actually killing anything.

A few ranged units to soften the enemy up (though these are getting less and less in number now I've adapted tactics a bit for M2)

4+ units of good cavalry to actually kill with.

The main change I've done from the basic "Hammer & Anvil" tactic with M2 is that I range my cavalry much wider and further forward. The Ai is more likely in M2 to turn a good portion of his lines to face 1 or 2 cavalry companies leaving their flanks exposed to my infantry or at the least leaving the Ai with a disorganised muddle of troops which I can pick off company at a time with massed cavalry charges.

I've only really re-found ranged units in E:TW where I'm adding more and more cannon and my cavalry do nearly no fighting.

[Khorak]

My preference, which unfortunately isn't possible with all factions, is a total range spam. England isn't my favourite faction for entirely patriotic reasons, I will happily fill an army with 10-12 (as normal, more if I have them available) of the best longbowmen I currently have, hopefully with a decent general and some siege if I'm going after cities. I always fight defensively (like England always historically did come to think of it) and shoot everything to death. I might have some melee troops if I'm storming cities, but otherwise MTW2 is so ridiculously unrealistic about the lethality of the bow as a general rule, that I can get by without bringing a screen of heavy infantry to an AI stomping. The only real problem against these armies is cavalry, which stakes deal with quite effectively by forcing them to die horribly in a frontal charge or die horribly under a hail of arrows as they screw around trying to flank me.

Once I start getting well enough into the gunpowder era, it just gets even worse. I'll end up putting out armies of 12 longbowmen and 8 cannons. The cannons alone are an unholy ranged terror with such numbers, stacked up with the longbows and there simply isn't any way to concieveably assail such an army without huge losses. You're just gonna get brutalised on the approach. And with the range of the cannons, I can force an AI army to attack me on my terms.

I'll also get by very happily with cannons and heavy infantry. Playing as Denmark can be a bit of a one trick pony for half the game as you run screaming towards the enemy in every single battle with a horde of whatever heavy infantry you have to hand in the secure knowledge that once you get your hands on the enemy, they're stuffed. Then you end up with cannons and Obudshaer and just can't stop laughing manically.

[Cute Wolf]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I usually play multiplayer LAN in EB, but I also get some M2TW experience....
(with patched version, if not, 2 handed units won't hit the Horsies)

With my Favourite Faction in each game

Vanilla & British Isles
England
Abuse your enemies with every kind of longbowmen! and get some Dismounted English Knights to kick their arse if they come close!... just made 4 dismounted English knights at the front, and let every longbowmen stand behind him (stronger longbowmen got outer place to protect against melee), switch off the skirmish mode, and watch your enemies fall easily... btw, plant all stakes on the ground, so massive cav charges won't make it... use two english knights as cavalry support
Scotland
Made a line of pikes using your highland clansmen, get some noble pikemen to guard their flanks, and get some highland nobles to help mop enemy line... just made sure that you got some archers and mortars, and just march to your enemy..... Better keep a feudal knight or two, as cav counter...

Crussaders only
Jerusalem
Use Marshall of the Templars as general unit in MP, then get the constables of jerusalem as support cavalry, get some templars and or tripolitan knights as regular cavalry, and use some squires and dismounted knights as line infantry... use templar crossbowmen as front line skirmishers, along with some moron of lebanon for backup archers, that's it... made use of your powerful heavy cavalry for close contact, with your bows pelting those saracens horse archers...
If you face massive Saracen troops, just use more moronites to give them spiky death...

[IncubusDragon]

Cheers fellas... I suppose it makes sense to develop the use of missile/gunpowder units as our tactics evolve... after all, it's better for your own army if you can decimate the enemy before you even need to to raise a sword.

I was having a wee look at the Timurid "tank" (artillery elephants), and as far as I've been able to ascertain, only gunpowder units can take them out - no amount of arrows will injure them in the slightest (obviously, you can use half your infantry to take them on hand-to-hand but sustain heavy casualties too). As far as I've discovered so far, it takes two units of musketeers for every unit of Timurid "tanks" to take them out successfully. That said, you can take out a full stack of Timurid "tanks" with a full stack of Musketeers with minimal casualties...

[Cute Wolf]

Janissary Musketters are actually the best gunmen in the M2TW game, as if they had no more ammo, they just drew their swords and charge forward to act as decent medium infantry (seriously). You can expect the same with Russian Cossack musketters.

But it looks like in empire TW: the Ottomans didn't have these excellent men, and Janissary musketters are quick to die in melee....

[IncubusDragon]

That was fun, but when the Timurid "tank" is integrated into a balanced force, it's very awkward to handle. I set up a custom battle with 5 units of Timurid "Tank" (have they got limitless ammo?) and filled half my own army with 10 units of Musketeers... I admit I was a bit sloppy but still manage a win by a hair's breadth...


Like I say, sloppy performance... If I protected my Musketeers better, then I wouldn't have needed to bring so many of them, but c'est la vie and all that. Anyway, here's the battle replay - far from ideal, but it at least demonstrates that the longer range of the muskets come into their own when facing-down the "tanks" (save into your "replays" folder)...
http://www.mediafire.com/file/nzzt0my2ziz/Pyrrhic

As usual, battle is set to "very difficult" and if you fancy trying it for yourself, here's the battle file (save into your "custom" folder)...
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ckoiltzdvog/Elephant

[_Tristan_]

My favourite fighting style involves lots of cavalry and missile.

I will generalyy use fast cav to get rid of enemy missile units before they get in range.

Once done, I will then use my own missile units to soften the enemy line... and send in the heavy cav...

All you need to do is to time your cavalry charge just right... Which requires a bit of training but can be mastered rather easily...

I even managed to take on 1600 men with only two bodyguards, a Horse archer and a single unit of peasants as reinforcements...

There is nothing like cavalry in this game... Most times, I would not even take any infantry in my armies, not even in sieges (thanks to spies...)

[Yesugey]

To having fun more, i usually train Canons and mass infantry only. The enemy hopelessly defend their cities and giving me heavy casualties, but finally overwhelmed by my swordsmen swarm.

[Seabourch]

Depends on who I play, I'm more at home with a horde of missile cavalry, shooting everyone to death. But for infantry, I prefer a defensive battle as with England, only Billmen seem to work until your armoured swordsmen appear.

[Tabuu]

Agreed. If it's a wide open battle, like on plains, I play as Scotland and place pikemen at the flanks and front with cavalry in between them and archers. Kinda looks like this:

0000000000000
00XXXXXXXX00
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

0= pikemen
X= cavalry
I=archer

[VersusAllOdds]

In MTW2 single player, I try to use as much light cavalry as I can. If your faction has them (Moors, Portugal, Spanish, Egypt, Russians, Polish, Hungarians, Byzantine, Turks), they are usually easy to get, and cheap to maintain, in comparison to other cavalry. Spear throwing cavalry of the Moors is my definate favourite, you can have many of them and fast, they virtually destroy a unit (when firing at enemy's back, one unit of Desert Cavalry can render useless any single unit). Then I use them to charge at flanks and mop up broken enemies.
Same goes with horse archers.
Heavy cavalry is very good too, but it just hurts me to see any knight die, because they can be retrained at very few places in the early game.
My hands go down to cavalry!

[Cute Wolf]

why bother with Knights when Italian cavalry militia is almost the same, with cheaper upkeep, and could be upgraded for better defense?

But if you want them, don't bother with mailed and feudal one, unless they are your starting units, use those with plate armour (knights of England, knights of Portugal, Chivalric Knights, Imperial Knights, Huscarls (they are not plate user, but darn good with those AP axes), Templar, and Hospitallers)

[dzidek]

My favourite army is Denmark.

5x Obudasher - a very very good unit that is way better for me then f.ex. Jannisary Heavy Infantry. They don't have a second weapon like pikes so won't switch to a crappy unit, and they can make a pike wall with their halberds. They stop a caalry charge and infantry charge with ease.
3x Norse Archers - medium infantry with arrow support, stand behind the Obudasher pepper the enemy with fire arrows, then support the pike wall in melee
3x Artillery (Trebuchet behind the pikes or Cannon on the side)
1x General
2x Huscarls or Chivlaric Knights - for flanking and pursue
6x Heavy Infantry - as Denmark you can choose different units, i usually use Dismounted Huscarls and Dismounted Feudal Knights

Defending a bridge or a wall assault is pretty the same for everyone so i will describe field tactics.
I choose a place near some woods i put the Obudasher in the open with Norse Archers behind and Trebuchets in the back. Cavalry a little behind them in a posittion to easily flank my pike wall and support it.
Heavy cavalry is hidden near in the woods. Usually the AI sends his cavalry after heavy infantry so i can pin them easily and finish them off. If they dont use a lot of cavalry i make quick fast attack from the side.

[thyPlantagenet]

Me favourite faction be England.
I have me own way of fighting, as methinks most of thou do.

I would have grand infantrymen numbers (mostly 80% of the army, when I can do so) disposed through the largest terrain, but while maintaining the thickest lines I can. Some longbows or whoever archers I have, I put them behind the army (if they can inflict greater damage there) or in front of it (if their stakes - if accessible - can struck down fool enemy cavalrymen charge).

- only to justify meself, if thou think I am doing wrong, I win entire campaigns with less than 6 or 8 battles lost, on very hard difficulty -

Curiously, I get more cavalrymen when I am besiegeing a settlement

[Old Geezer]

I do much as Tristan and Againstallaodds do. I like a faction that has very fast horses and/or javelin cavalry and Polish mounted crossbowmen. The Timurids' elephants are just big waddling targets for javelins (which are ap) An all cavalry Polish army against any Mongol or Timurid army (one on one) is astounding. It is easier to defeat than an all jinetes/knights army. I use light cavalry (Border Horse, Jinetes, etc. )to charge the archers that the AI rushes and after the initial impact let them whack away until the spearmen come close and then withdraw and send them around the flank to capture all routers. Then the Knights are in a flanking position and charge the spearmen. I find it best to concentrate 2 or 3 cavalry on a spear or sword unit; it makes them route almost immediately. Billmen are just about as easy a target to destroy as peasant archers are if you time the charge right and especially if you have another unit flanking (it doesn't even have to have made impact yet to affect the infantry).
In my opinion, guns are cute, but useless. The only time that I used them to good effect and found the battle interesting was in an Americas campaign where my Spaniards were attacking the French in a field battle, as both sides had musketeers.
If I have a new unit of cavalry with none or few chevrons, I use it to lead any charge and try to get it to take heavy casualties so that it can get promoted to higher chevrons. It frequently can get a 1 chevroned unit promoted up to a level 6 or even 7 when merging with a level 9. So when I meet the Timurids almost every cavalry unit is a level 9. Even Border Horse with upgraded armor and weapons and level 9 chevrons can hurt the Mongols very seriously, because they are just as fast and can charge the mounted archers who can't get a shot off before they are impacted; I send 2 against each Mongol unit on the wings and then circle to the rear of the Mongol center which opens up a lot of opportunities for mayhem.