Best. Painting. Ever.

[spmetla]

I like the Cthulu version best.

Same here, having the kid writing in blood over the Constitution is pretty funny. Gotta get this to one of my buddies with a similarly warped sense of humor.

[Azathoth]

Yeah, which is only supports the fact we should remove it. If it was a tradition, I would leave it alone. But it is not. The pledge was tampered with in 1954. BTW, does anyone still remember how the people would do the 'Nazi salute' when reciting the pledge or the national anthem (called Bellamy Salute I believe)? Fun times...

Wow, good thing we don't pledge like that anymore.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Wow, good thing we don't pledge like that anymore.

The extended arm salute had nothing to do with the Nazis, they hijacked it like they did with everything (in this case, from the Romans).

[Hax]

The extended arm salute had nothing to do with the Nazis, they hijacked it like they did with everything (in this case, from the Romans).

Indeed.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Louis VI the Fat]

The extended arm salute had nothing to do with the Nazis, they hijacked it like they did with everything (in this case, from the Romans).

Indeed, so much Nazi symbolism predates the Nazis, and is now tainted forever - the salute, the fasces, the swastika (I went to the Carlsberg Glyptothek in Copenhagen once. The Swastika was all over the building. It was...weird.)

(Poor me, surrounded by huge blond Scandinavians half a meter taller than me, leading me into their swastika emblazoned headquarters, where no doubt some evil Germanic scientist with paintings of Thor and other Teutonic Gods on his wall would await me, eager to perform some God knows what sort of wicked experiment on me while my screams would be smothered by Wagner's Die Valkyrie.
Freightening )

I've always thought it funny how nobody has a Hitler moustache anymore. They were not all that uncommon. I am always shocked to see men of the period have that moustache.


The striking thing about the picture is not the symbol, but that it had pretty much the same meaning as it did in Germany. That of subjugation of the individual under the nation.
The Nazis did not operate in a cultural vacuum. I think that in a thousand years, the nazis will stand out not as something singular anymore, but at best as the most archetypical variant of a civilization at large.

The modernist urge to create society afresh, the racial fixation, the nationalism, the authoritarianism, the militarism - all of that was pretty common. A person from the year 2133 will be hard pressed to tell the differences between America in 1933 or Germany in 1933. The way we are not immediately aware of which monarchy in Europe was the most absolute 300 years ago.

Like the Hitler moustache, the example set tainted it forever, and ended it. An end was made to imperialism, racial fixation, nationalism. Without Hitler, we'd still be in Algeria oppressing the inferior race in a quest for Lebensraum.

[Azathoth]

The extended arm salute had nothing to do with the Nazis, they hijacked it like they did with everything (in this case, from the Romans).

Still, context.

[Tellos Athenaios]

A person from the year 2133 will be hard pressed to tell the differences between America in 1933 or Germany in 1933. The way we are not immediately aware of which monarchy in Europe was the most absolute 300 years ago.

I still doubt that. Not because the political/sociological views of Nazi Germany were so radically different of New Deal USA; but because of the way Nazi Germany stands out in a way much like the Louis XIV or Louis XVI stand out. Exemplary of an era, so to speak.

[Meneldil]

Would have to agree with Athenaois. The Nazi ideology was pure evil, as far as we can use such a term to describe a political system.

Auschwitz is so far a singular event in mankind's history, and even if something like that happens again (which is all in all likely), the Nazis will have set the standard, probably for as long as we'll remind what they have done.
Some events in stand out, even though they're not that different from others, simply because they set up a new, probably unbelievable standard.
None will remember the Armenian genocide in 150 years, except maybe some Armenian and Turk nationalists (if these two nations still exist). But the Holocaust? That's probably one of the most important event of modern history.

Edit: And the Cthulhu version made me laugh hard.

[The Stranger]

Would have to agree with Athenaois. The Nazi ideology was pure evil, as far as we can use such a term to describe a political system.

Auschwitz is so far a singular event in mankind's history, and even if something like that happens again (which is all in all likely), the Nazis will have set the standard, probably for as long as we'll remind what they have done.
Some events in stand out, even though they're not that different from others, simply because they set up a new, probably unbelievable standard.
None will remember the Armenian genocide in 150 years, except maybe some Armenian and Turk nationalists (if these two nations still exist). But the Holocaust? That's probably one of the most important event of modern history.

Edit: And the Cthulhu version made me laugh hard.

no one will remember its not just the germans to blaim. the holocaust as an excuse has had its best time.

WWII as the entire event is probably the most important yes, but not just the holocaust. Its not just the jews that suffered, Asia suffered, Russia suffered, Non-Jewish Europe suffered. People tend to forget WWII had 50 million casualties, not just 6 million.

[Papewaio]

Like the Hitler moustache, the example set tainted it forever, and ended it. An end was made to imperialism, racial fixation, nationalism. Without Hitler, we'd still be in Algeria oppressing the inferior race in a quest for Lebensraum.

WWII did not gouge that out of France. The retreat from Vietnam happened long after WWII. The reason France is out of Algeria is that it was too costly. France has not forgotten how to oppress as anyone in the Pacific can testify for... Rainbow Warrior, Nuclear weapon testing in atolls, New Caledonia (Operation Victor). The list goes on.

Imperialism didn't end, it just picked easier opponents. All that France and Europe learnt was that to keep picking on smaller nations and not go head to head with another first world nation. Also the biggest reason that Europe didn't fight another conventional war was the very real chance that it would involve USA vs USSR using the EU as a nuclear testing ground... something a European power will only ever allow in another part of the world.

[Louis VI the Fat]

It didn't end May 8th, 1945. It ended in the decades following, when the moral implications of WWII sank in. None of the colonial wars was lost because European nations couldn't afford them They were unwinnable because the brutality of colonial wars was deemed unacceptable. In 1900, it was alright to genocide troublesome areas. In 1960, no longer.

Then there was 1968. And all the other changes in society after that.


As for the rest of your post, I am in a combative mood, since tomorrow morning is Monday morning and I'll have to get up early for work, so:

Pft.

Twenty-five million white British settlers genocide an area the size of Europe in the Pacific, and then spend the rest of eternity mewling about one hundred thousand Frenchmen living on three tiny Pacific rocks, who unlike the Ozzies didn't murder the natives nor had a 'Whites Only' policy until two weeks ago, and who therefore experience occassional etnic tensions.

Speaking of State terrorism: when will Australia and New Zealand do something about the abominable living standards of what's left of the Aboriginals?

[Papewaio]

I was hoping that there was some Gaelic combativeness still left. You bite to easy, I will have to introduce you to my family farm on which we have Truffles and Maine Anjou cattle for the real feeling of France in the Pacific.

Now that I have your attention. Who do you think will win on the 29th at Marseille? I would like to see France beat the All Blacks (I know heresy) in a close match based on a passing game... no more kicking. A win such as this would annoy both England and Wales for the cost of a single loss.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Speaking of State terrorism: when will Australia and New Zealand do something about the abominable living standards of what's left of the Aboriginals?

When will France do something about the abominable standards of the African immigrants? Worry about your own problems, Louis. :S