Elite and Disciplined units

**Empirate** · 11-20-2009, 15:19

After years and years of playing this game (the best strategy game of all time in my book!), I've still to find out what the "Elite" and "Disciplined" status of certain units means. For example, Byzantine Infantry is Disciplined. Elite units, such as knights, seem to be different, and there are several units which are both Disciplined and Elite (Janissary units, for example). What are the differences in the effect of these statuses?

For a while I thought they're two levels of the same quality (Elite>Disciplined>Standard, and maybe all these >Militia, or even >Mercenary). But the units which are both seem to contradict this theory.

In Froggy's unit guide I got the impression that it takes a routing Disciplined unit to affect another Disciplined unit's morale, e.g. Byzantine Infantry will not take a morale hit from routing friendly Spearmen, but will take one from routing friendly Kataphraktoi. Also, they're supposed to take a smaller morale hit from a routing or captured/killed general. More or less the same goes for Elite units. Are these the only effects of the Disciplined and Elite tags?

Froggy says about Nubian Spearmen (who are disciplined) "that they are easier to control and the death of your general or routing troops that are not disciplined or elite doesn’t bother them". Easier to control in what sense? Nubians do seem to maintain better unit cohesion than, say, Saracen Infantry (I always manage to get these guys separated into a huge blob of men milling around everywhere...). Is that what Froggy means?

Knights, on the other hand, are Impetuous and Elite. So maybe Disciplined is more about being the opposite of Impetuous: Easy to hold back from combat, easy to draw out of melee, easy to maneuver around.

What do you guys think? Have you made any general observations?

**caravel** · 11-20-2009, 15:53

Elite status is a carry over from STW. In the game files it's known as "Samurai" and can be set to either true or false. Units that are elite are not at all affected by routing none elite units ("ignores routers that aren't elite"). This is vital as it means that your CMAA or Knights don't take a morale hit once the peasants start running. This is a separate parameter to discipline.

Discipline is not the same as elite status. AFAIK none elite disciplined units can still waver when other none elite, none disciplined units rout, but are less likely to do so. I have observed this with Nubian Spearmen and others such as Byzantine Infantry on many occasions. Discpline comes in three types "Disciplined", "Normal" and "Uncontrolled". Discplined units are better able to resist the affects of routing friends and the generals death. Normal units are at the base level. Uncontrolled are the least disciplined, but they get bonuses from charging without orders.

This post by Puzz3D might be informative: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ht=disciplined

**PershsNhpios** · 11-20-2009, 22:48

Bonuses from charging without orders?

I have never heard that before!
What are these bonuses?
I'm not sure if this bonus is ever really practical however, because the only unit I have ever known to charge without orders are the royal knights. And these prefer to charge without orders into the middle of a line of Feudal sergeants as they are running against my Men-At-Arms stationed at the edge of a forest.

And I do not believe a combat bonus would compensate for the destruction of my strategy in that case!

I take very little notice of 'Elite' status, because especially in XL there seem to be rather too many units with the status, as if every farmhand with a year of training and a sharp blade is beyond fear.

**gollum** · 11-20-2009, 22:58

Originally posted by Mr Glenn
And I do not believe a combat bonus would compensate for the destruction of my strategy in that case!

I doubt it was introduced to specifically counter it Mr Glenn

**caravel** · 11-20-2009, 22:59

Originally Posted by Glenn

Bonuses from charging without orders?

I have never heard that before!
What are these bonuses?
I'm not sure if this bonus is ever really practical however, because the only unit I have ever known to charge without orders are the royal knights. And these prefer to charge without orders into the middle of a line of Feudal sergeants as they are running against my Men-At-Arms stationed at the edge of a forest.

And I do not believe a combat bonus would compensate for the destruction of my strategy in that case!

I take very little notice of 'Elite' status, because especially in XL there seem to be rather too many units with the status, as if every farmhand with a year of training and a sharp blade is beyond fear.

As well as most types of Knights; Futuwwa, Ghazi and Nizari also charge without orders quite a lot. Charging without orders gives a +4 morale bonus IIRC. If you mouse over a unit and see that it is "impetuous", charging without orders could happen at any time. It can be both a blessing and a curse.