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  1. #1
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethnicities

    Quote Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah View Post
    Yes. Whereas in a Gallic faction, there would be many Gallic ethnicities, the Romani might only have one standard Gallic ethnicity.
    We can made each ethnicity (sub ethnicity) available to each faction on the condition they conquer a different city / region, so there is no need to give a "standard" ethnicity, such as plain "hellene", we can add "Spartiates" "Athenai" "Kres" "Rhodios" etc.... to almost all faction, given they get the proper regions, it just a matter of trait triggers...

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    Member Megas Methuselah's Avatar
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    Question Re: Ethnicities

    Quote Originally Posted by Cute Wolf View Post
    We can made each ethnicity (sub ethnicity) available to each faction on the condition they conquer a different city / region, so there is no need to give a "standard" ethnicity, such as plain "hellene", we can add "Spartiates" "Athenai" "Kres" "Rhodios" etc.... to almost all faction, given they get the proper regions, it just a matter of trait triggers...
    Can it really be done with every single faction, though? That would be cool. I would be sure, though, that the primary ethnicities (Macedonian ethnicities for Macedon, for example) would hopefully get a far better chance than the foreign ethnicities at appearing (50%?).

  3. #3
    EB Nitpicker Member oudysseos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethnicities

    You have to stop and consider for a moment how likely it is for widely divergent societies, some of them quite xenophobic, to acquire Family Members from unrelated ethnic groups. Yes, very gradually, Roman generals, magistrates, senators and even emperors came from originally non-Roman peoples, but this process took a very long time- in most cases, longer than the game lasts. And the Romans were very liberal about assimilating new peoples compared to many others such as the Carthaginians. Our guide here must be common sense and plausibility, together with historical examples. If you can think of any serious instances where, say, a Gaul became part of the Numidian family tree, then tell us about it.

    Don't confuse Exogamy with ethnicity: Antiochus I Soter may have had a Persian mother, but he was not considered a Persian by any means, and his children and descendants were Macedonians.

    Of course there are grey areas: the Kings of Pontus were well intermarried with the Macedonian lines- but that didn't really make them Maks, eh?

    In the end it depends on each faction and how likely we think they would have accepted truly foreign men into their power structure. But bear in mind that a son inherits his fathers ethnic trait, so that adoptees, men of the hour, and husbands are the only way to introduce new ethnicities into a factions family tree.
    οἵη περ φύλλων γενεὴ τοίη δὲ καὶ ἀνδρῶν.
    Even as are the generations of leaves, such are the lives of men.
    Glaucus, son of Hippolochus, Illiad, 6.146



  4. #4
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethnicities

    Uhh, you're right... maybe it's not too realistic (in classical period sense) when a Sweboz chieftain accept Ethiophian men to marry his daughters....

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  5. #5
    Member Member Horatius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethnicities

    This seems very similar to the other ethnicities thread with the variation of family.

    I personally see classical xenophobia as way overestimated, Cornelius Nepos was of Gallic extraction, but everyone needs to read his lives before becoming familiar with the people he talks about.

    Not only that Roman Law concerns itself with marriage between citizens and non citizens and the status of their children.

    Finally unless I am very much mistaken but the term Germanic and Celtic are not very descriptive.

    Gauls just weren't Britons, Britons weren't Ligurians, Ligurians weren't Venetii, Venetii weren't Galatians etc etc

    With the German groups to, there were unless I'm much mistaken as many Sarmatians amongst the Vandals as "Germans".

    Barbarian terms have been very distorted in the last few thousand years by nationalists, I would much rather talk about the different groups, what (little) we know about them, and their interactions with others, I highly doubt we will ever be able to prove they came from anywere considering even the idea of Celts coming from central Europe raises the question then what were the Illyrians?

    I have also found that MTW2 doesn't have the same bribery ease as RTW so it will be very hard to bring in new members of the family.

  6. #6
    Member Megas Methuselah's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Ethnicities

    Quote Originally Posted by oudysseos View Post
    You have to stop and consider for a moment how likely it is for widely divergent societies, some of them quite xenophobic, to acquire Family Members from unrelated ethnic groups. Yes, very gradually, Roman generals, magistrates, senators and even emperors came from originally non-Roman peoples, but this process took a very long time- in most cases, longer than the game lasts. And the Romans were very liberal about assimilating new peoples compared to many others such as the Carthaginians. Our guide here must be common sense and plausibility, together with historical examples. If you can think of any serious instances where, say, a Gaul became part of the Numidian family tree, then tell us about it.

    Don't confuse Exogamy with ethnicity: Antiochus I Soter may have had a Persian mother, but he was not considered a Persian by any means, and his children and descendants were Macedonians.

    Of course there are grey areas: the Kings of Pontus were well intermarried with the Macedonian lines- but that didn't really make them Maks, eh?

    In the end it depends on each faction and how likely we think they would have accepted truly foreign men into their power structure. But bear in mind that a son inherits his fathers ethnic trait, so that adoptees, men of the hour, and husbands are the only way to introduce new ethnicities into a factions family tree.
    Bah! Aye wants Ethiopian men konquerin' Britain!!!

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