Arverni Campaign

[king of thracia]

I have to agree with you. I can't find a little niche for them to fill in my armies. They simply melted when I used them online and ended up costing me the battle. Against AI players they may have some uses when heavily micromanaged. I just don't care enough to bother with too much of that.

Don't know why you'd expect to win MP without micro, lmao. If opponent didn't have massed archers then you simply don't know how to use them.

[WinsingtonIII]

I can understand what you guys are saying about the cost-effectiveness of Leuce Epos, they are quite cheap. I just don't think it's justifiable to claim that they are decisive battle-winners. Cost-effective, maybe even surprisingly good light cavalry? Sure. But not decisive battle-winners in most cases.

Don't know why you'd expect to win MP without micro, lmao. If opponent didn't have massed archers then you simply don't know how to use them.

Please spare us all the personal attacks, it doesn't add anything to the discussion. By the way, there are a huge variety of explanations for losing a multiplayer game when you happen to be using Leuce Epos that do not involve a failure to micromanage your cavalry or massed archers on the part of the enemy.

[king of thracia]

I can understand what you guys are saying about the cost-effectiveness of Leuce Epos, they are quite cheap. I just don't think it's justifiable to claim that they are decisive battle-winners. Cost-effective, maybe even surprisingly good light cavalry? Sure. But not decisive battle-winners in most cases.

They have a real charge, a high lethality charge. There are two types of lance cavalry which are generally identifiable by the way the horseman holds his spear, either overhand or underhand. Although there are exceptions, underhand is better, having about double the lethality. Leuce Epos are of underhand. A useful stat viewer for units can be found at http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net

Such a cavalry charge will cause massive casualties and if done at the right time will cause routing. Naturally, this is helpful in deciding the battle quickly, faster than infantry grind down as well as being much easier and therefore more decisive than barbarian infantry charges. With Leuce Epos alt+click to charge while they still have javelin ammo. You can turn autofire on as desired and they will throw javelins while charging. Leuce Epos do a tremendous amount of killing between javelins, charges, and routers and do not have to close to melee to operate. In this manner they are much like their archer-lancer brethren.

It is good to rout for a quick victory and as well as to severely deplete routed groups so they do not reform and return to the battle.

Please spare us all the personal attacks, it doesn't add anything to the discussion. By the way, there are a huge variety of explanations for losing a multiplayer game when you happen to be using Leuce Epos that do not involve a failure to micromanage your cavalry or massed archers on the part of the enemy.

Yes. Blaming the Leuce Epos is rather disingenuous. They are not that hard to use although allowances must be made for individual skill level. Blx, you might want to advance beyond the point of just throwing two armies at each other ;)

[athanaric]

The point of Leuce Epos, as I've hinted before, is that they are vital in campaign.

- Two of their units can sandwich a heavy cavalry unit with a double charge. I've destroyed Seleukid Cataphracts with Bedouin cavalry this way.

- They are extremely important for running down the enemy general. Especially if you're playing against a (cowardly) faction with very fast cavalry generals, like Epeiros, SPQR, or Lusotannan. Of course, you shouldn't try to attack a Germanic or KH general with them...

- They make excellent pursuers to mop the field clean of your routing enemies, ensuring that you don't have to fight the same army twice. Pursuing with heavy cav is possible, but it sucks, especially roleplay wise.

- Very useful distraction and general annoyance to lure away enemy troops. In campaign, it may happen that you face a superior army (like a Roman PE+Triarii+Neitos fullstack ). Superior mobility is crucial, not only with Nomad factions.

[WinsingtonIII]

They have a real charge, a high lethality charge. There are two types of lance cavalry which are generally identifiable by the way the horseman holds his spear, either overhand or underhand. Although there are exceptions, underhand is better, having about double the lethality. Leuce Epos are of underhand. A useful stat viewer for units can be found at http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net

Such a cavalry charge will cause massive casualties and if done at the right time will cause routing. Naturally, this is helpful in deciding the battle quickly, faster than infantry grind down as well as being much easier and therefore more decisive than barbarian infantry charges. With Leuce Epos alt+click to charge while they still have javelin ammo. You can turn autofire on as desired and they will throw javelins while charging. Leuce Epos do a tremendous amount of killing between javelins, charges, and routers and do not have to close to melee to operate. In this manner they are much like their archer-lancer brethren.

It is good to rout for a quick victory and as well as to severely deplete routed groups so they do not reform and return to the battle.

Yes. Blaming the Leuce Epos is rather disingenuous. They are not that hard to use although allowances must be made for individual skill level. Blx, you might want to advance beyond the point of just throwing two armies at each other ;)

I'm not that new to EB... I know about the unit viewer, the difference between underhand and overhand lance cavalry, how to alt click, how to turn fire-at-will on and off, how to charge cavalry, how to use cavalry in general, and how to do more than just throw two armies at each other ( throwing two armies at each other is actually pretty difficult considering I only have control over one army...). If you are legitimately trying to help, then thank you, but that little dig at the end makes it seem like you're trying to talk down to me, and I don't appreciate that. I don't understand why you feel the need to insult me in the first place, considering all we are doing is talking about a light cavalry unit.

I think I should revise my earlier statement. I can use skirmisher cavalry fairly effectively (I may not be great with them but I'm certainly not making the rookie mistakes that you are implying). That said, I don't particularly like Leuce Epos. It's a personal opinion, that's all. I don't understand why everyone is jumping all over me about this in first place, all I was doing was expressing a personal opinion, and if I had realized how much trouble it was going to cause, I never would have said anything.

The point of Leuce Epos, as I've hinted before, is that they are vital in campaign.

- Two of their units can sandwich a heavy cavalry unit with a double charge. I've destroyed Seleukid Cataphracts with Bedouin cavalry this way.

- They are extremely important for running down the enemy general. Especially if you're playing against a (cowardly) faction with very fast cavalry generals, like Epeiros, SPQR, or Lusotannan. Of course, you shouldn't try to attack a Germanic or KH general with them...

- They make excellent pursuers to mop the field clean of your routing enemies, ensuring that you don't have to fight the same army twice. Pursuing with heavy cav is possible, but it sucks, especially roleplay wise.

- Very useful distraction and general annoyance to lure away enemy troops. In campaign, it may happen that you face a superior army (like a Roman PE+Triarii+Neitos fullstack ). Superior mobility is crucial, not only with Nomad factions.

Thank you for a response that was not insulting, but as I said, I understand their battlefield role and have used them that way. Since early on they are some of the only cavalry available to you as the Gallic factions, they are certainly important during campaigns, and I understand that. They are just not one of my favorite units, that's all. A personal opinion, nothing more.

[athanaric]

That said, I don't particularly like Leuce Epos. It's a personal opinion, that's all. I don't understand why everyone is jumping all over me about this in first place, all I was doing was expressing a personal opinion, and if I had realized how much trouble it was going to cause, I never would have said anything.

Probably because they are the favourite light cavalry unit of so many players... That said, although I find Leuce Epos very effective, I prefer Dahae Riders.

[WinsingtonIII]

Probably because they are the favourite light cavalry unit of so many players... That said, although I find Leuce Epos very effective, I prefer Dahae Riders.

I guess that's understandable. I should have made it more clear that I wasn't trying to disrespect the unit or anyone who likes it, but that it just wasn't one of my favorite units, because I don't like skirmisher cavalry that much. Again, to anyone here who likes skirmisher cavalry, no disrespect, it's just my opinion.


Haha I guess I know to tiptoe around the issue of light cavalry from now on.

[moonburn]

leucos epos the illirian light cavalry and the dahe riders are my favourite light cavalry

i mean seriously have you ever builded an army of combined cavalry arms ? heavy medium light skirmishing, it totally rocks the greater hability to manouvre get regiments without suport and anihilate them one by one while loosing very few troops in comparison

hell i even destroyed an argys silver shields dudes with 3 units of dahe riders by always hitting them from 2 sides as the other one draw their attention (note i was already out of arrows by now since killing katraphacts is not as easy as it sounds )

you should give it a try making 5-6 units of cavalry from all sorts and use them to destroy entire roman full stacks (always kill the general 1st tough and then their cavalry units )

[Knight of Heaven]

I guess that's understandable. I should have made it more clear that I wasn't trying to disrespect the unit or anyone who likes it, but that it just wasn't one of my favorite units, because I don't like skirmisher cavalry that much. Again, to anyone here who likes skirmisher cavalry, no disrespect, it's just my opinion.


Haha I guess I know to tiptoe around the issue of light cavalry from now on.

Actualy at first i didnt have any respect by skirmisher cavalry, but in time, by playing RTW EB, and M2tw and his mods, begin to love skirmisher cavalry,a nd the role that cavalry has. it is very usefull.

Currently in my romani campaing, i only use skirmisher cavalry, mainly campanian, and lugurian cav. im in 220 BC :)
no heavy cav for me, no need for that.