Another Next Total War Poll

[Fisherking]

There is another new poll at the official site on the next total war.

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/64192

[Owen Glyndwr]

Where is the Europe: 1400-1700 option?!? I've been asking for this since R: TW!

[Fisherking]

Post and ask!

It can't hurt. I sure don't want RIITW yet!

[Beskar]

I would like an Asian: Total War with China and Japan with mini-campaigns such as the Sengoku Period and others. India could be in it too.

However, The Great: Total War has a ring to it.

Where is the Europe: 1400-1700 option?!? I've been asking for this since R: TW!

Nothing really happened, outside of Kingdom's and Empire.

[Zenicetus]

Asia Total War sounds intriguing, but it's too undefined. What time period? What part of Asia?

It's too early for another Rome, but I'd love to see a two-part project starting with the expansion of the Greek city states, with Rome as a later full game or expansion. The naval battles could be spectacular (if they finally get sailing right). So Greek Total War was my first choice, without knowing more about what the Asia thing is about.

I can't believe WWI is on the list. Leaving aside the discussion of how exciting trench warfare would or wouldn't be, I don't see how the current tactical battle engine could cope with it. The battlefields aren't large enough to represent long-range artillery or air support. And even though aerial dogfights in WWI were something of a sideshow, I don't see how they could add air combat as a strategic or tactical element in the current game engine. Without aerial dogfights, it really isn't a WWI game.

[Nelson]

It's time for Shogun2 to return us to Japan during the Segoku Jidai and the wars in Korea. Including the 12th century period would be good too.

Banzai!

[Discoman]

I really agree that they should make an Asia: Total War.

Not so sure if a WW1 game would even get close to the appropriate scale. Why is there now an option for an 19th century Total War? Would it really be any different from Empire for like half the game?

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

If I registered for the boards (not likely!) I'd vote for WWI. Take CA out of their comfort zone, make them do something really interesting. Much more of a gamble, but does anyone want them to make Shogun 2 the same way they made Med 2?

[Quintus.JC]

Shogun II or Rome II.

[hoom]

Shogun 2.
Keep it small, keep it tight, make it work properly.

[Owen Glyndwr]

Nothing really happened, outside of Kingdom's and Empire.

I don't really understand what this is supposed to mean.

[PBI]

Ideally I would like Asia or WWI in that order, if they could be done right.

Realistically I seriously doubt either would be done very well, so maybe it would be better to go for Rome or Shogun 2; as hoom said, I would rather have a game which is not too ambitious in scope and which is well implemented than something which tries to be the "best game ever" and falls short. Also, I care sufficiently little about the settings that I won't mind giving it a miss if it's another mess, but enough that I would be interested in playing the game if it is good.

The only setting I would be really iffy about is Medieval 3, I don't see what could be added by revisiting the setting yet again. I would probably be inclined not to bother with it unless it turns out to be really great.

In any event I think the next game is likely the franchise's last chance; CA badly needs to repair the damage done by ETW, and I think breaking the series of progressively more unfinished games we have had since Rome with a slick, finished game with realistic ambitions is more important than the specific setting.

[Durallan]

IDK if I'd buy an asian total war, I might buy Rome Total War 2, but I think they should do Shogun 2 (or Asia) depends how far away the release date is, I guess itd be around 2011, so I'd probably buy it, buut I dunno, while I'd probably prefer something in europe or the entire world, I think all the people that really want the asia setting deserve something by now

[antisocialmunky]

East Asia or WWI.

[hoom]

In further explanation of my earlier statement: The prospect of a WWI:TW scares the crap out of me.
I can barely conceive of how that could possibly work, let alone for CA to execute such a massive change to the needed level of polish.

I could potentially go for a Greece:TW with Greek infighting, colonisation, Carthage vs. Syracuse (?), Persian invasion, Trireme battles etc.

I really don't want to see the TW series stagnate into doing the same periods over & over.
Its definitely too soon for a return to Medieval (M2 was already too soon!) & Rome but I think its best for the next one to 'rebirth' the series by going back to Shogun, probably Greece following after S2.

Shogun 2.
Keep it small, keep it tight, make it work properly.

[pevergreen]

Shogun if it looked awesome, or Rome.

[peacemaker]

I have a feeling it's going to be an Asian:TW. CA isn't going to want to put the brand new engine to waste, and This way they'll be able to implement some gunpowder units.

Keep it small, keep it tight, make it work properly.

And my E:TW folder is only what? 10gb? Look at the maps. That doesn't look like it's going to be too small.

[hoom]

I mean small as in the scope of the project ie plan something that can be relatively easily completed & made to work properly.

Part of the reason that CA is really the only company making TWish games is that nobody else is crazy enough to make games of such sweeping scale & many features that must pose massive technical/programming challenges.

They have mostly pulled it off in the past but the launch quality of Empire, residual bugs (including many lingering in previous TW games) & increasing fan hostility shows that they've been getting too ambitious so its time to cut back to something more manageable with more focus on producing a good game.

[Braden]

Asia: TW

I’d go for that, a semi-revisit of Shogun. Similar to E:TW and N:TW however in that the main game (i.e. the Empire game) is the full Asian sub-continent, China warring states, India the whole gambit…dammit you could even include Mongols again and the Americas (in line with the claims the Chinese visited first).

THEN the expansion would be full Shogun II…simples see *squeak*

Keeps the same game engine, same format as current games…main then an expansion…and keeps us oldies hooked as we wait to revisit Shogun again but with *shock* 3D animations!!

I’d post on the official forums but ezboards and me just don’t get along (in other words all my logins don’t work anymore).

So, feel free to suggest on those boards anyone if you want….

If they did this, kept the engine the SAME, keep all the FIXES they’ve put out for Empire and just concentrated on getting the units right, maps right and the last remaining game play issues right…CA could win us back.

They mustn’t try to re-invent the wheel again, Empire was clearly too much of a leap over Medieval II for them (lords knows why though)…keep what works NOW in the new game, we don’t need any concentration on “greater enhanced graphics” or “advanced particle systems”.

Just get the GAME PLAY right!

[Zenicetus]

Here's another angle on the "next game" question. Since full 3D naval combat is the big new feature in ETW (and I mean that in terms of sexy trailers that help sell the game)... which choice would make the best use of the naval combat engine, both for tactical interest and to help sell the game?

I think that's a strong case for ancient Greece or Rome (preferably Greece, for me). There have been enough movies showing navies of oared ships fighting with archery, primitive artillery, and ramming, for people to relate to easily. And it wouldn't require a major overhaul of the naval combat engine since this is all close-range fighting that fits within the scope of ETW's naval combat engine. Steamships already move (more or less) like ships under oar power. Boarding and capture could still be a factor, and it just needs a new tactic for ramming.

Ancient Asia had naval battles, but I think they were using smaller ships and mainly as archery platforms. Mostly small-scale coastal battles, with some river combat in China. I may be wrong (I'm not that well-versed in the history), but it seems to me that naval combat in ancient Greece around the time of the Persian and Peloponnesian wars would be more "cinematic" and better for selling the game. Also fun to play, if they did it right.

Medieval III isn't a time when ship combat was very interesting, and I think that's a low probability anyway since it was the last period covered before ETW.

Naval combat in WW1 wouldn't work well, for the same reasons I posted above about long-range artillery and air support. They would need to vastly expand the battlefield area for dreadnoughts pounding away at each other, along with scouting (and bombing) from airplanes. They'd also have to figure out how to incorporate the early submarines. It's just not a natural fit for the current ETW engine without making it much more complicated.... and I think (as said above by others), what we want is a tight game with good AI coding that wouldn't require massive additions.

So that's my best argument for Greece: it's the best way to exploit the naval combat side of the game. As an aside, I think the concept of schools, colleges, and the tech tree (i.e heavy emphasis on science instead of religion) is also a more natural fit for Greece than for Asia, or a Medieval III.

[Fisherking]

Currently Rome II has twice the votes as its nearest competitor.

I agree that Greek and Roman Naval War is an interesting topic for a game or otherwise.

The ships need a reverse before you introduce ramming though.

There is stepping and unsteppen of masts, the use of heavy weights on booms to sink your enemy, all kinds of interesting Naval inventions for technologies.

I just wonder about how long you need research to obtain flaming pigs or screaming women?

[Seyavash]

Personally I would love an Asia total war with an expansion focusing on Japan. There is a huge potential of variety in Asia that has yet to be fully explored.

The issue I think will be sales. Shogun was highly focused on an area that might not sell well enough for CA to devote an entire game to it. Devoted fans of the series would love this but would such a game bring in enough new fans? I am not so sure. Same thing with an Asia total war, will it expand their appeal more than another European/American period game.

I actually think we may see them move away from the huge campaign games toward a more narrow and directed period game. something like Road To The Revolution and NTW. This could mean smaller games but more frequent publishing. Focusing on wars that they think will sell well. I am not keen on the idea, but I do think it is possible.

[IsItStillThere]

Shogun 2.
Keep it small, keep it tight, make it work properly.

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto!!!

I think as the series has evolved, the games have gotten bigger, more bloated, and more difficult to balance and program AI for.

[sassbarman]

shogun 2 for me to please.

Totally agree with the idea mentioned above about keeping it focused and tight, get the core game working right then maybe expand features and such with dlc.

[caravel]

*Sigh* the division of Asia/Shogun into Asia and Shogun II is pointless. They won't make Shogun II anyway so it should have been just Asia: Total War. Shogun II could easily have been the expansion or whatever. As it stands R2TW will win that poll.

Personally I'd like to see either S2TW or ATW. I would only buy if it were totally free of Steam and any other intrusive copy protection or "phone home" software.

[Krusader]

I'd wish for Shogun 2, but compared to Rome2 or WW1 it would not sell too much copies for SEGA's tastes.

[Fisherking]

Well, I guess we need to face it.

Once upon a time hard-core gamers were a force in the market. They bought the high-end machines and the games that ran on them.

There were a lot of studios but they all gradually dwindled. They were bought out, went under, or taken over.

Today it is the mass market and casual gamers that seem to rule the roost.

The time, effort, and heart are not going into these games. It is no longer the feel of the game but the dazzle of the graphics that matter.

Realism is just something for 3D shooters and Historical Accuracy only applies to the lines of Airplanes.

Most only have enough grasp of history and geography to know that Rome was a long time ago and Europe isn’t a province of Canada.

So, just expect Rome II and when they are up to it WWII...

[Khorak]

Well, I guess we need to face it.

Once upon a time hard-core gamers were a force in the market. They bought the high-end machines and the games that ran on them.

There were a lot of studios but they all gradually dwindled. They were bought out, went under, or taken over.

Today it is the mass market and casual gamers that seem to rule the roost.

The time, effort, and heart are not going into these games. It is no longer the feel of the game but the dazzle of the graphics that matter.

Realism is just something for 3D shooters and Historical Accuracy only applies to the lines of Airplanes.

Most only have enough grasp of history and geography to know that Rome was a long time ago and Europe isn’t a province of Canada.

So, just expect Rome II and when they are up to it WWII...

*checks watch*
Wow, I didn't know it was time for condemnations of the supposed 'casual gamer' already. Ah, the good old days, where there were thousands of studios all working selflessly with no thought of making massive piles of money out of gamers who were pure hearted and true.

Oh no wait, that's so wrong I can actually hear the universe screaming out a big no in response. Mass market has always ruled the roost, and just because the market itself is now so large you can pretend you're a unique and special 'hardcore' snowflake doesn't suddenly make casual gamers a new phenomenon. It's so-called 'casual gamers' who've been dragging your backside along with them since the NES in the mid eighties, not the other way around.

[Fisherking]

*checks watch*
Wow, I didn't know it was time for ignorant, dire condemnations of the supposed 'casual gamer' already. Ah, the good old days, where there were thousands of studios all working selflessly with no thought of making massive piles of money out of gamers who were pure hearted and true.

Oh no wait, that's so wrong I can actually hear the universe screaming out a big no in response. What a load of utter elitist tosh. Mass market has always ruled the roost, and just because the market itself is now so large you can pretend you're a unique and special 'hardcore' snowflake doesn't suddenly make casual gamers a new phenomenon. It's so-called 'casual gamers' who've been dragging your backside along with them since the NES in the mid eighties, not the other way around.

Most studios started as gamers building things they wanted to play and yes making money from it but it lacked something it has now Khorak old boy.

A corporate mind set. Those old studios made some money and sold out or went on to something different. But what their motive was in building those was much different.

It wasn’t about bean counters and release dates. No rush for Christmas or some media hype.


But....

In your ignorance and hast to criticize you missed the point. It was a let down for those wanting what was before.

The people voting don’t want Shogun II because they never even saw the box art.

A game focused on history would feel too much like school, or someone trying to penetrate a thick head.

So the games are graphic and light with a minimum of thought needed at each end...which is where you came in.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Fisherking, you are probably romanticizing the past a bit too much. Not only that, but even in it's borked state ETW is far from a casual game. A truly casual gamer's eyes are going to glaze over at all the options available to them (and they'll never dig deep enough to see where ETW doesn't work). Furthermore, there are still hardcore games out there; check out Paradox's line of games which include some really arcane stuff.

If you find the TW series too unsophisticated, then check out other stuff. Not only are you more likely to find something you like, but you get to stick it to CA in the process.