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  1. #1
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
    Wow, you guys do anything fast....

    And CuteWolf's face is really ridiculous on any of the Native troops... nothing will made any mod players ROFL when they see a chineese-dutch boys acts as native spearmen...

    But now I present my research on Gunners, but I still amazed about their stats, but at least the historical evidences said: (unlike what Cute Wolf said previously, the arquebus is used, but really less effective as their ammo will have less power ad range... but they are still used because even the europeans know nothing more...) and the natives allready have matchlock handguns too, brought by Chineese and Arab Traders, and manufactured locally. Flintlock mechanisms (which in turns made massed gun as line infantry available), are late innovation and not included in this mod... and even I just know that in 15,16, and 17th century, terms musketters often used as specialized gun troopers who doing the skirmishing jobs...

    Colonial Gunners (80 men)
    -> European horde infantry armed with what so called gun... either matchlock arquebus, or pooly tuned muskets. Inaccurate and should be used only when necessary, they are the settlers that hope to get easy riches on tropical colony, and will be disbanded when they arrive in their new lands.

    Arquebusiers (81 men)
    -> Basic Gun armed infantry for most europeans, they have fear effects, but less range compared to crossbows, and the high humidity and usual rains render their blackpowder ineffective... because their matchlock compartements is easily pernetated by water vapors... at least they are still professional troops and highly disciplined.

    Portugese Arquebusiers (81 men)
    -> Basic Portugese gun infantry, with poor shooting skills, but wear heavy armours and more than eager to fight in melee (partly because their gun are often clogged in the tropics)

    Skirmish Musketters (50 men)
    -> Musketters are gunners equipped with better guns, who had better range, and as they fought in tropics, their matchlock guns often has extra tar and grease fixings to portect the powder compartement against humidity, and the richer often use whell-lock guns for better protection against dampness. Because of their exspensive upgrades on their guns, they are trained to shoot in considerably long range, and hence often used as early sharpshooters, before the real sharpshooters are available.

    Frontiersmen (30 men) - 2 HP
    -> Trained european men used to survive in the wild of unknown lands, and hostile natives, they are equipped with guns they often take care specially, and often rely on their whell-lock guns to do most of their killings. They can be used for counter ambush, as they know how to hide well in the wilderness, and their experience with nasty natives often gives them exceptional hand to hand fighting prowess with their swords.

    Sharpshooters (40 men)
    -> Sharpshooters are hghly trained with their often custom made guns, effectife in eliminating their enemies in extremely long range, they are quite exspensive soldiers though, and didn't fare well in melee....

    Company Sharpshooters (52 men) -----
    -> Company Sharpshooters are Dutch men trained in Sharpshooters tactics, and paid to doing so as the guardsmen of the VOC cargo, sightly more numerous than their fellow sharpshooters counterpart, and has somewhat better skill in melee, thanks to their nasty experience against native raids.

    Militia Musketters (60 men)
    -> These men are former colonial gunners, that gain better guns, and often used for sharpshooting enemy leaders if the real sharpshooters aren't present. They rely on guns as their only true kind of weapons, and despite carrying swords, they didn't have any real skill to use it....

    Laskar Bedil (61 men)
    -> Majapahit, Kasultanan Jawi, and almost all the natives had enough time against mongol invasion in 13th century, and more time to trade with chineese and Arabs, as such, even in the old Sriwijayan army, lies several troops trained to use chineese/arab matchlock guns, and they are really used to great effect, as Pieter Both mentioned that Mollucans and Bugis traders allready have guards who carry guns... But battle accounts said that they are just mediocre shooters, and many relied on their better than average skill in close combat.

    Petembak Locok (81 men)
    -> Aceh, Malaka, and nearly everyone who has significant muslim influence will have another approcah to get gunners on their side... they are directly adopt Ottoman tactics and drills, and even Portugese and Spanish soldiers face these men in battle will tell that they are somewhat similar with gunners from andalusia in tactics, discipline, and strategy. Historically, the refugees from Andalusia, when flying against Spanish Inquistition, go to the north africa, and then most made their hijrah to aceh. They still leave visible remnants in the genetics of Acehnese people, having some blond and blue eyes, especially seen in Aceh Jaya city, at the Al-Andalus sector, where most of their descendants still lies here until today....

    Laskar Uthmani (62 men)
    -> These men are elite Aceh gunners, trained directly with Turkish methods, they are highly capable gunmen, able to shoot imressively accurate in considerable range, even when compared with their european rivals.

    Kallona ri Bugis (91 men)
    -> Even before the arrival of the europeans, Bugis mariners allready equipped themself in firearms, mostly learned against the army of Imperial China, they are essentialy a close quarter gunners, well suited to take close actions when boarding enemy ships, but more than reliable to fight on land. Armed with close compartment matchlock pistols, they have shorter range than most gunners do, but then they are used to launch some gun volleys and then charge forward with their badik swords. (well, the only gun infantry who has gun as precursor weapons)

    Kroco Lantak (100 men)
    -> The most common, and numerous native gunners, while didn't have good melee prowess as the laskar bedhil do, they are armed with standardized guns, often fashioned from chineese and arab styled guns, rather than european style. They are relatively short-ranged, but often crucial to provide effective counters against supperior, but less numerous european gunners. They are largely untrained, and just know how to fire their guns and run afterwards, as guns is exspensive, but can be effectively used by militia.

    Reformed Native Gunners (92 men)
    -> They are professional gunners, trained in European ways, and despite outnumbered by Kroco gunners, they are disciplined and has regular drill, making them on par with the europeans, and often get advantage because they has better numbers. Trainable only in heavily europeanized / christianized area.

    Native Gunners (92 men)
    -> European trained natives as gunners, raied by European for their effective ranged garrison army.

    Mercenary Colonial Gunmen (80 men)
    -> Mercenary version of european colonial gunners

    === not much sure about another mercenary gunmen though... maybe added later
    We should make the Gameplay settings to "Normal" for the numbers of troops, no army that
    time could assemble an army so big, Make it Normal (80 men=40 men)

    Mercenary Colonial Gunmen (80 men)
    -> Mercenary version of european colonial gunners

    Natives could'nt "hire" Gunmen easily, so it must be set in a high Price (1500)

    maybe some Elephants would be good to add here,
    now, what will the General's Bodyguard be?????
    this is my Suggestion:
    -Euro:
    Cavalry (like all General's Bodyguard Normally)
    Armoured Swordsmen (like Agema, used for explorers such as de Houtmann)

    -Javanese:
    Cavalry

    -South Sumatera(sriwijaya):
    sumatran Elephants


    OO yeah, got a list of euro units ready for Balancing:

    -Armoured bodyguard, heavy infantry(for Cornelis de Houtmann)
    Faction: VOC
    weapon: Rapier

    -Swordsmen Militia , Light infantry

    Def: full-plated armor
    faction: all euro

    -Swords and Bucklermen/, Heavy INfantry
    faction: all euro
    Wep: Sword
    Def: Shield, Metal Vest

    -Dragoons, Missile Cavalry
    pierces armour
    weapon: Gunpowder
    Def: Body Armor, metal helmet

    I'll draw those units, I'll upload it someday.....
    Last edited by G. Septimus; 11-30-2009 at 10:27.
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  2. #2
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Septimus Severus View Post
    Maybe we should apply guns for Traditional factions when:
    1. They make alliances with The Europeans
    2. They made a trade with THe Europeans
    3. they are Protectorates (like S.Hassanudin's enemy, Arupalaka)
    Hey, he said that traditional factions got guns from Chinese and Arabs, europeans aren't needed....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Septimus Severus View Post
    We should make the Gameplay settings to "Normal" for the numbers of troops, no army that
    time could assemble an army so big, Make it Normal (80 men=40 men)

    Mercenary Colonial Gunmen (80 men)
    -> Mercenary version of european colonial gunners

    Natives could'nt "hire" Gunmen easily, so it must be set in a high Price (1500)

    maybe some Elephants would be good to add here,
    now, what will the General's Bodyguard be?????
    this is my Suggestion:
    -Euro:
    Cavalry (like all General's Bodyguard Normally)
    Armoured Swordsmen (like Agema, used for explorers such as de Houtmann)

    -Javanese:
    Cavalry

    -South Sumatera(sriwijaya):
    sumatran Elephants


    OO yeah, got a list of euro units ready for Balancing:

    -Armoured bodyguard, heavy infantry(for Cornelis de Houtmann)
    Faction: VOC
    weapon: Rapier

    -Swordsmen Militia , Light infantry

    Def: full-plated armor
    faction: all euro

    -Swords and Bucklermen/, Heavy INfantry
    faction: all euro
    Wep: Sword
    Def: Shield, Metal Vest

    -Dragoons, Missile Cavalry
    pierces armour
    weapon: Gunpowder
    Def: Body Armor, metal helmet

    I'll draw those units, I'll upload it someday.....
    Swords and bucklermen are Spanish Rodeleros, the English got armoured swordsmen, and the other two faction maybe have sightly inferior swords unit. And they can't be armed with rapiers, except for officers... because Rapiers are exspensive, and it only useful in duel, as it has long thin blade that easily dent or broken. You have golok or clurit at your home? then imagine the thin blade of Rapier get to be used to parry the heavy blade... they'll be instantly broken -> instant lol

    Gunmen is well known, even the chineese exstensively used it before the european do, but your research carry somewhat contrary ideas.
    1. The guns are ineffective, they are often clogged...
    2. The guns are widely used...
    So what does it means? If they are ineffective, why they are widely used?? = =a

    About bodyguards, it was about a matter of debate... but then we may create 2 kind of bodyguards per faction... and the royalty and european officers got heavy infantry, because they are usually only observing battles, and if the line was wavered, they do dismount themself to reinforce their line... because this is not ETW, we can't dismount cavalry on the site, so we use heavy infantry bodyguards. Secondary bodyguards is recruitable to the player, and AI will get em spawned more often.

    Oh yeah, GSS & Sonic, about your gunmen lists, I have a suggestion to separate the gun after european type reform, and the native guns... I know that Acehnese allready got many cannons and guns when they first fight portugese army, but I don't know that these men are moorish refuges (sudanese gunners FTW?)... Maybe one mercenary european gunmen is enough, but then we'll made 2 or 3 types of native mercenary guns.... especially I was interested in Korona ni Bugis, because some accounts said they are pirates and mercenaries... maybe we'll made 2 version of them, the supperior goes to Gowa-Makkasar, and pirates as factional army, and the inferior goes as mercenaries... wait, or pirates can train merc version??

    My Projects : * Near East Total War * Nusantara Total War * Assyria Total War *
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  3. #3
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    There will need to be a reform (If we can make it) of Europeans.
    when they came, they still use armor, after the year 1680, they'ii use the ETW unit skins,
    with better guns,
    like Aquibusers change into Line Infantry, Musketeers-> Colonial Infantry, there will be a Special "Proffesional Army" that will be only loyal to they're General, like the VOC governor, will gain control of the entire VOC Regional commanders, and will introduce a policy the "Kerja Paksa" (hahahah I'll set it in our language, so the downloaders will be confused) in the reform era
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    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Reform for europeans? VOC are more often relied at Native Pikemen and Native Gunmen to do their job... the europeans only formed the professional core of their forces..

    EDIT: Oh yeah, this post, I'll announce the European logo... just wait in time when we facelift all the logo into the BI 's game UI!!!

    Spanish:


    Portugal:


    English:


    And finally, after some ridiculous debate.... The Dutch!!!
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 11-30-2009 at 13:31.

    My Projects : * Near East Total War * Nusantara Total War * Assyria Total War *
    * Watch the mind-blowing game : My Little Ponies : The Mafia Game!!! *

    Also known as SPIKE in TWC

  5. #5
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Cute Wolf View Post


    And finally, after some ridiculous debate.... The Dutch!!!
    OI!!!!!
    where's the blue??????
    u need blue for the Dutch!!!!
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    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Septimus Severus View Post
    OI!!!!!
    where's the blue??????
    u need blue for the Dutch!!!!
    Blue? The Ridiculous debate about the dutch should be Orange dominated (dutch calls themself that time, House of Oranye).... or 3 colour red white blue..... but... what do you think? Well, I'll made 3 colour version for the dutch...

    BTW, this is their flag and signature symbol that time... look as they are orange dominated:



    Oh yeah, here's the logo proposal...


    Note:
    Not artisticated yet.... they'll be get some canvas effects for the faction symbol
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 11-30-2009 at 14:01.

    My Projects : * Near East Total War * Nusantara Total War * Assyria Total War *
    * Watch the mind-blowing game : My Little Ponies : The Mafia Game!!! *

    Also known as SPIKE in TWC

  7. #7
    U14 Footballer Member G. Septimus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    THIS IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  8. #8
    Boy's Guard Senior Member LeftEyeNine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    I like your enthusiasm which should not wane as it will be attracting the interest it deserves provided you're dedicated to produce something indeed. Keep it up.

  9. #9
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine View Post
    I like your enthusiasm which should not wane as it will be attracting the interest it deserves provided you're dedicated to produce something indeed. Keep it up.
    Wow thanks LeftEyeNine....
    And how about any experienced map maker... could them lend some suggestions for my map?
    Last edited by Cute Wolf; 11-30-2009 at 13:17.

    My Projects : * Near East Total War * Nusantara Total War * Assyria Total War *
    * Watch the mind-blowing game : My Little Ponies : The Mafia Game!!! *

    Also known as SPIKE in TWC

  10. #10
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nusantara : Total War

    Ok, now before the faction facelift will be done, look here at the faction lists... GSS, Sonic, did you agree about this?

    Culture:
    Jawi = Huns
    Melayu = Eastern
    Bugis = Nomad (Bajak laut will belongs to Bugis culture, because the Carthaginian cultures are bugged)
    Indochina = Barbarian
    European = Roman

    My Projects : * Near East Total War * Nusantara Total War * Assyria Total War *
    * Watch the mind-blowing game : My Little Ponies : The Mafia Game!!! *

    Also known as SPIKE in TWC

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