Battles of Maldon and Assandun

[shankly]

I'm not at all heavily involved with any of these games, although once upon a time I spent hours with Shogun, MTW, and RTW, but at this point I'm pretty far removed from all of this and am not in touch with the new generation of Total War. However, I'm trying to put together simulations of the Battles of Maldon and Assandun (Ashingdon) as part of an overall presentation on the Danish conquest of England. To this end, I have a few questions for anybody who can help:

1. Are there existent simulations of these battles that I could download without having to go through the messy process of trying to precisely control the battlefield action myself so that it's historically accurate?
2. If not, is there a way to control both sides in a battle so that I can effectively produce these battles in a way that fits with the historical record?
3. Even though MTWII starts from 1080 on, is there a way that I could use it to recreate the battles, since the units (I'm guessing based on the improvements from RTW) look much better and would create a more interesting viewing experience for my audience?


Thanks for any help-this is for a senior-level history course on the Norse world and I'd like to be able to use this as a more interesting way of presenting my subject matter than drawing x's and o's on a chalkboard.

[Julius Augustus]

Do a multiplayer battle with realistic armies. Get a friend to command one army, and you command the other one. Have a preset plan for who will do what when. Finally, save the battle replay and make a movie out of it in movie maker or iMovie. This should be pretty easy. Hope your project goes well.

[IncubusDragon]

You'll probably find useable units from the Britannia campaign (part of the Kingdoms expansion for Medieval II Total War). I'm assuming the "presentation" would be video clips of battle replays?

That's the good news... now for the bad news... alright, so that's a wee bit dramatic, but the game is supposed to be designed to give you a different fight each time you play, so even if you set-up a custom battle, there's no guarantee that you'd get the same outcome that's recorded in history. Worth a try though, you might fluke a suitable battle replay.

Assuming you got the broadband connection to do it, Julius Augustus has made a great suggestion if you want the entire battle recorded in a single replay... obviously you both need to have the custom battle installed and know the battle inside out, so that units can be routed on cue etc.

Alternatively, you could stage a series of set-pieces (in separate custom battles so you have more control over the outcome of each exchange), record the footage you want with Fraps from battle replays, and edit together in a video editor - adding audio commentary if wanted... Maybe sounds a bit much, but if that's how I would do it because I don't have broadband so couldn't go down the multiplayer road.

[shankly]

I appreciate your responses, and can see now that this will be a herculean task that may or may not be worth the trouble, but then, it's only a 10 minute presentation so 18 hours of meticulous battle maneuvering sounds about right.

It's been suggested to me to use the Chivalry II: Sicilian Vespers mod to get this done. Is there any reason to do that rather than just use the Britannia campaign?

I haven't gotten into M2TW yet (just ordered it yesterday) but is there a way to customize the terrain? I ask because in the Battle of Maldon, the Norse forces were separated from Brythnoth and the Anglo-Saxon forces by a narrow causeway that was flooded for most (if not all) of the battle. According to some theories, the Norse forces, upon receiving Brythnoth's invitation to cross, simply waded through, and in the process protected their legs from aerial attack. It's clearly not essential to have the causeway flooded, since I imagine that's impossible, but it would be nice to be able to have the causeway, since it played a pivotal role in how the battle unfolded.

[_Tristan_]

I think you might use the "ford" that are allowed in game to create your causeway but I don't know anything about how the map editor works except that you're surely looking to some more hours to create your own custom map...

Good luck though

[IncubusDragon]

Chivalry II: The Sicilian Vespers... https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...cilian+Vespers I've never used any mods, so you'd need to do a wee bit more research to see if it's what you want.

I've just started using the Battle Editor (working on the Battle Of Stirling Bridge), and while it's far from perfect (can't rotate bridges, buildings etc), I'm happy to help out and reckon we could make a custom map that'll do the job nicely.

Also, do you have an aerial photo and/or a plan of the battlefield? If so, I could use that as a basis to work from... after all, the clock is ticking.

*** EDIT ***
This is the place mate, yeah?

*** EDIT ***

[shankly]

That is the place. That would be amazing...let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Just as a heads up, I need to get this worked out by Wednesday. Is the battle editor part of M2TW? If so, I'll have a go at trying to make the map as well, and see what I can do.

[IncubusDragon]

To access the battle editor you have to open the medieval2.preferenence cfg file with notepad and add this line in at the bottom of the text (usually found in Programs Files/SEGA/Medieval II Total War/).
[features]
editor = true

That activates the battle editor, and is then accessed via the "options" from the main menu.

[IncubusDragon]

Alrighty... not 100% ideal but close enough considering it's not using any specialised mods. In the end, I didn't bother fiddling with Kingdoms expansion, so "normal" Medieval II Total War can be used... which also means it will work with any mods you might decide to use (might also need to copy map folder into the correct mod folder too). I had to compromise with the horizon because I couldn't get rid of the hills, so Essex has gotten a bit hilly all of a sudden (the result of sinking the land to enable sculpting of the river, which was the important part to get right).

I discovered that you can't save replays of historical battles, only custom battles, so I included both in the ZIP file... also with a couple of battle replays, custom battle, and armies that might not be too accurate but still have an older "feel" to them (this'll be why somebody suggested the Chivalry II mod). I've set it up so you can play either side. For best results, set unit size to "huge" before loading the custom/historic battles, as this'll give the fight a more realistic scale.

The custom battle doesn't start with the Vikings (Danes) on the island like the historical battle does (out of my control I'm afraid - seems to automatically select largest land area to deploy on), but you can deploy as if you came across the causeway and used the river to protect your left flank as the Saxons (English) approach you out of the nearby woods... the replays will give you an idea what I mean.

Of course, if you want to start on the island, you gonna have to use fraps to record as you actually fight the battle(s) in the Historical Battle (perhaps playing with minimal UI)... but remember you don't need to fight it all from start to finish... so long as you get the shots and angles you want to use. But at the end of the day, it's up to you to experiment and do what you feel's right.

Here's the link to the goodies... http://www.mediafire.com/file/jnqzmm...ubusDragon.zip

I hope it helps, and good luck with your presentation mate.

If all else fails, at least that's a nice little historical battle to add to the meagre few that CA originally supplied us with.

[IncubusDragon]

Here's another replay... it's function is purely so that you can have footage of the river being forded and a line of battle being formed in a battle replay (as far as I'm aware, the Saxons routed through the woods, so deployment in Custom Battle is possibly more accurate than how I set it up in Historical Battle). Simply install into your replays folder to access.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zjdy3izzgj3/Maldon

[shankly]

I haven't had a chance to look at this stuff yet as I'm in the midst of writing a paper, but I can't thank you enough for your efforts. What little time I've had thus far to work on creating a custom battlefield has been largely frustrating, so you have saved me a great deal of time and stress. Once I get time to take a look at them, I may have some more questions and certainly praise for you. Thanks again man. This is invaluable.

[shankly]

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back about these-the last three weeks of the semester are always very hectic. My presentation was actually shifted back today and the historical battle set-up you provided worked wonderfully. I didn't have a proper laptop that could run M2TW, so I had to carry in a desktop and spend 20 minutes finding another projector, power strip, etc when I got to class.
I couldn't quite figure out how to get any of the replays to occur on the right battle map-not sure if that was a necessary evil of the process or a mistake on my part. I was able to access the Maldon map through the historical battle, and just kind of ran it in a way that best approximated the actual events. The sight of the danes fording the river was incredible, and I had them met by a 'shield wall' through which they broke and eventually overran the Anglo-Saxons. One historical inaccuracy that I pointed out but that turned out to be fun for everyone to watch was the flaming arrows raining down on the Anglo-Saxons. I ran the battle beforehand, but I guess it's not possible to save a replay of a historical battle.
I'd like to play around with this some more, even though I'm done with this presentation. How can I use the Maldon battlemap - which file do I need to move and where - to create a custom battle. I'd like to eventually set one up using units from The Sicilian Vespers and record it.
Thanks a lot for your help, the class was interested and impressed.

[IncubusDragon]

Cool... glad there was a wee bit of wow factor there... Replays only possible on Custom Battles I'm afraid and got less unit types to choose from than Historical Battle.
I'll get back to you later today, just a little tied up at the moment.

ID

[IncubusDragon]

...I couldn't quite figure out how to get any of the replays to occur on the right battle map-not sure if that was a necessary evil of the process or a mistake on my part. I was able to access the Maldon map through the historical battle, and just kind of ran it in a way that best approximated the actual events.

I'd like to play around with this some more, even though I'm done with this presentation. How can I use the Maldon battlemap - which file do I need to move and where - to create a custom battle. I'd like to eventually set one up using units from The Sicilian Vespers and record it.

Now it's my turn to apologise back, I've been having internet connection problems, hence my delay also.

Alrighty, there are two battle maps in the zip file... both a Historical Battle and a Custom Battle Map - if the Custom Battle Map wasn't copied over, then the replays wouldn't work. Here's a pic with the folder cascade opened up... the additional notes in red show where there is data that should be copied into the same folders on your PC. If they're all in place, then all should work fine.

So assuming that's sorted ok, when you go into your Create Custom Battle, the Maldon map will appear in your map list as Maldon_IncubusDragon... As stated earlier in this thread, both armies will deploy on the mainland in the Custom Battle - something beyond my control I'm afraid (program seems to automatically allocate armies on largest landmass), albeit I posted a replay whose function is purely so that you can have footage of the river being forded and a line of battle being formed in a battle replay (http://www.mediafire.com/file/zjdy3izzgj3/Maldon). Simply install into your replays folder to access.

[IncubusDragon]

I've had a quick look, but unfortunately I couldn't see the Sicilian Vespers available to any faction in Custom Battles, so looks like a specialist unit only available for constructing Historic Battles.

[IncubusDragon]

Here's another replay... it's function is purely so that you can have footage of the river being forded and a line of battle being formed in a battle replay (as far as I'm aware, the Saxons routed through the woods, so deployment in Custom Battle is possibly more accurate than how I set it up in Historical Battle). Simply install into your replays folder to access.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zjdy3izzgj3/Maldon

This is the only file that's not already in the zip file.

If you're wanting to use a battle replay rather than create movie footage, then you'll need to experiment with playing as the vikings and rushing over to the island so that you can come back across the river again. Personally, I'd use Fraps to record video clips from each replay and use a video editor to edit them together, thus showing events in the battle sequence to best fir your presentation. Also, with it being a set video with no variations in length or battle events, it will probably be more ideal for presentation purposes... but what am I saying, you probably got that side covered better than I ever could