How long did the Hellenistic schools of philosophy last?

[Calypze]

This is a subject with only indirect connection to EB, so I hope it's ok to post it.

In the Hellenistic and Roman eras, various schools of philosophy, like Epicureanism, Stoicism, Pyrrhonism and Cynicism had varying numbrs of followers among those who didn't believe in the religions of the time. It seems like they declined as Christianity grew. But how long did they last?

It seems like the last known Cynic lived as late as the 5th century CE, i.e way after Christianity had become the official Roman religion.

The last known Stoic seems to be Marcus Aurelius, and he died 180 CE.

The last known Epicurean seems to be Diogenes of Oenanda, and he died in the second century CE.

However, certainly most followers of these schools are unknown to us. Thus the last known ones are not necessarily the last ones.

So I wonder if any historian has estimated how long they were in sway. What would a reasonable estimate be?

Also, it seems like almost all the known followers of these schools were based around the Mediterranean. Is it known if any of them had following in the northern parts of the Roman Empire (like Britannia), or even outside the Greco-Roman world (like (Greater) Iran or India)?

[Macilrille]

Did they end or did they subtly change?

Christian thinkers, especially in the Carolingian and 12th century rennaisances were well acquainted with the surviving works of Hellene philosophers...

Now I do not know the answer to your question, but I do know a lot of the high middle age, so I may be able to put things in a different light with my question.

[satalexton]

it has never died, most people just decided to replace everything pagan with God and jesus, then burned the others on stakes.

[abou]

That's something I should look into. My guess is that the main schools themselves probably disappeared after the Council of Nicea, but could also have slowly withered before then.

I do remember one of my Latin professors telling us that a governor of Athens had written to the Emperor to complain that none of his citizens could read. Quite a remarkable change from a city that before was regarded as a jewel of the Hellenism. I should try to find that reference and verify it.

[satalexton]

I do remember one of my Latin professors telling us that a governor of Athens had written to the Emperor to complain that none of his citizens could read.

That's got to be an exaggeration, the notion that nobody could read in an entire city is absurd =/

[abou]

Hyperbole is a subtle art.

[machinor]

Well, that's a bit difficult to say. Philosophy always changes as there is a constant exchange going on. In late antiquity the popular interest shifted away from materialistic (in the sense of natural philosophy etc.) philosophical traditions like Stoicism and Aristotelism/Academic philosophy and more towards more mysticist traditions who had a lot of crossovers with religion. Think about the various Gnostic traditions, Neoplatonism, Hermetic philosophy etc. The popularity and comparable quick spread of Christianity was due to this zeitgeist to which it fitted quite well. Philosophical traditions dis- and reappear from time to time according to them fitting into the current philosophical thoughts, problems and questions of the time. Take Aristotle for example: He was the teacher of Alexander the Great and was considered an important philosopher of the Academic tradition in the Alexandrian Period. In later Hellenistic times however schools like Stoicism and Epicurism gained more popularity and was almost forgotten. Only in the Early Middle Ages he got a comeback in Islamic philosophy when his works got translated into Arabic. Through the Islamic tradition (especially through Cordoba) he came back into the European philosophy and throughout the Middle Ages was considered THE philosopher par excellence.
Other Hellenistic or ancient philosophical schools however disappeard nearly completely (apart from some works of Plato) in Medieval Europe. Only in the Renaissance a massive Input of new ancient source material came into the Western European philosophical tradition which showed to be quite fruitful.
I am unfortunately not very acquainted with Byzantine philosophy, but the Byzantine tradition kept ancient philosophy alive to a very high degree so it can be considered a continous tradition from Late Antiquity.

Also, do not make the mistake to perceive ancient philosophical schools as static in regards to content. Stoicism, Epicurism etc. went through substantial changes through the centuries.

[Rahwana]

it has never died, most people just decided to replace everything pagan with God and jesus, then burned the others on stakes.

In the west, in the east, we replace them with Quran, Alloh, and Muhammad's teachings, hellenic philoshopy without islamic faith are considered as greater kaffir, and most of them who reject the conversion are either expelled or beheaded, the only kaffir permited in Islamic rules are dhimmis (Christians and Jews)

That's something I should look into. My guess is that the main schools themselves probably disappeared after the Council of Nicea, but could also have slowly withered before then.

In the east, actually some school of philoshopy survive the christian opression, you can read their influence at the Sassanid courts, and even further to India. Yes, monotheistic religions are the fiercest persecutors of Pure Phillosophical tought. You can practice your philloshopy, but once you ask aout the existance of Alloh and his one true way (or ask about Jesus in the west), your head will be lost.

[antisocialmunky]

Well the ideas still exist today. Whether you consider that a continuation or not, I don't know. Epicureanism has always been around in deed if not in name.

[Uticensis]

Philosophy has had its ups and down periods. It never disappeared, it came and went.

It seems like during the Crisis of the Third Century philosophy sort of disappeared (Athens had been sacked and the empire was in chaos-there's no time for reading books when you're fighting for your survival). But once the empire recovered, philosophy came back, though some schools, like Epicureanism, had disappeared. But it was in this period that Christianity really grew.

I think one thing that has to also be remembered is that Christianity did not destroy philosophy, but integrated it. Thus, I disagree with abou: philosophical thought did not end after the Council of Nicaea; in fact, if you look at the decision from the Council of Nicaea, the idea of the trinity- an divine One that manifests itself in three separate forms- it has more in common with Platonic philosophy than anything in the Bible. I think it is easy to forget that the men who attended the Council of Nicaea, while they were Christian bishops, were also upper-class Greeks; they grew up reading the classics of philosophy.

The Christians had a love hate relationship with ancient philosophy: they needed it to explain Christian dogma, but feared that studying it might lead to paganism. Thus they adopted many aspects of ancient philosophy, but at the same time attacked it.

If you mean schools as in the literal buildings, the last philosophical school in Athens, the Platonic Academy, was closed by Justinian. The philosophers there went to the Persian Empire where they thought they would have freedom of thought. However, they were unhappy at the Persian court and asked Justinian if they could come back. He allowed them back, but I don't think they were allowed to teach, so that was for all intents and purposes the end of the philosophical schools at Athens. And during the Byzantine Dark Age, when the Empire was crumbling under the weight of barbarian invasion again, this time Arabs and Slavs, philosophy disappears. However, after the Empire recovered, interest in things classical came back. In the 10th-12th centuries, there was a renewed interested in classical civilization and though the religion was still Christian, there was a renewed interest in pagan philosophy (and the idea of combining the Christianity and classical philosophy). Michael Psellos, who live in the 11th century, was so interested in Platonic philosophy that he was accused of being a pagan. Yet he was probably characteristic of the upper-class intellectual of his time (and Psellos refounded the University of Constantinople, so once again there was a literal school where philosophy- in the guise of theology- was taught).

But again, when the empire was in trouble, this time from the Turks, people turned from philosophy toward more practical matters. But at the same time, at the very end of the Byzantine Empire, it came back again. The most famous example of this was Plethon, who was a Platonic philosopher who rejected Christianity and (as the Turks were preparing to take Constantinople) was trying to encourage the empire to return to worshiping the old Olympian gods. And once Constantinople fell, a lot of the Byzantine philosophers fled to Italy, where they taught Greek and philosophy to the men who would fuel the Renaissance.