javelins too weak?

[Slaists]

This is not an issue of EB but rather of the RTW engine in general. I find javelins to be way too underpowered.

Take akondistai, for example, they are little more than a nuisance (with javelins or without). I agree that javelins would be pretty ineffective when thrown frontally against troops carrying shields. However, they should be quite effective against shield-less/unarmored opponents. Nonetheless, a full unit of akondistai, at best, kills a couple (unarmored) slingers in a full frontal, close range volley. Also, if positioned directly behind a frontally engaged enemy phalanx unit, a full unit of akondistai, is able to get just a few kills before running out of javelins.

That's just BS IMHO... Please pardon my "French". These men were skilled with their javelins. Also, javelins had been a weapon of choice for hunting purposes for thousands of years. How many throwing chances do you think a hunter gets before the animal runs away?... So, no way, akondistai would miss 90% of their throws standing behind a phalanx at practically a point blank range... Such a volley would be devastating...

Anyway, any ideas how to mod this into the game?

[Antonivs Silvicola]

Just mod the primary attack value in the export_descr_unit file in the data folder. For example;

;142
type greek skirmisher akontistai
dictionary greek_skirmisher_akontistai ; Akontistai
category infantry
class missile
voice_type General_1
soldier hellenistic_missile_akontistai, 60, 0, 0.85
mount_effect elephant +2, chariot +2, horse -2
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, hardy, hide_long_grass
formation 1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 7, square
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 4, 2, javelin, 55, 6, thrown, simple, piercing, spear, 10 ,1
stat_pri_attr thrown
stat_sec 7, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 0 ,0.04
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 1, 6, 2, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 1
stat_ground 0, 0, 0, -2
stat_mental 8, low, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 810, 202, 20, 30, 810
ownership greek_cities, macedon, thrace, numidia, slave, romans_brutii, romans_julii, egypt, romans_scipii, armenia, pontus, gauls, britons, scythia, dacia, germans, carthage, parthia, seleucid, saba, spain

Just change the 4 to a higher number until you get the desired effect.

[athanaric]

I find my Akontistai to be quite effective vs phalanx. However, IMO there should be a few more casualties in a phalanx when frontally hit by a massive javelin volley.

Slingers have a very loose formation and cause attacking javelin troops to waste many missiles. Unarmoured infantry units with a shield value of less than 3 actually suffer heavy casualties from frontal javelin volleys.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I find that javelins are effective enough in game. Akontistai were generally speaking the poorest of the poor with little to no experience in combat. Although many were no doubt skilled hunters, it is entirely different to hunt a deer in the woods and to fight on an open battlefield where men are dying around you and concentrate on anything but just throwing your javelins and getting the hell out of there.

Play as Lusotann and you will see just how effective javelins can be. Between the long range javelins of your native units and the solifera of the Iberian units, you can rip half an army to shreds before they reach your lines.

[anubis88]

I agree they are underpowered. Phalanxes often dont get a singe dead men when i hit them with javelins frome the front, even at point blanke range. That's just wierd

[seienchin]

That is not a javelinn problem. Its a problem about the phalangitai having 5 shield, which is even doubled when in phalanx mode-

[Ludens]

That is not a javelinn problem. Its a problem about the phalangitai having 5 shield, which is even doubled when in phalanx mode-

I am pretty sure that the story that shield value is doubled by phalanx mode is myth. The 1.2 patch doubled shield value against missiles, but this was for all units, not just spearmen in phalanx mode.

[seienchin]

I am pretty sure that the story that shield value is doubled by phalanx mode is myth. The 1.2 patch doubled shield value against missiles, but this was for all units, not just spearmen in phalanx mode.

Ah okay. Sorry. Still I have the feeling phalangitai rarely take hits from arrows. Still their shieldvalue is 5, which is higher than most units (Nearly all?) making them incredible resistant to javelinnes.

[antisocialmunky]

I am pretty sure that the story that shield value is doubled by phalanx mode is myth. The 1.2 patch doubled shield value against missiles, but this was for all units, not just spearmen in phalanx mode.

Ludens is right. However, javelins are a just a little too weak when compared to arrows or slingers of death for taking out armored targets. :-\