javelins too weak?

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · 12-01-2009, 18:29

I find that javelins are effective enough in game. Akontistai were generally speaking the poorest of the poor with little to no experience in combat. Although many were no doubt skilled hunters, it is entirely different to hunt a deer in the woods and to fight on an open battlefield where men are dying around you and concentrate on anything but just throwing your javelins and getting the hell out of there.

Play as Lusotann and you will see just how effective javelins can be. Between the long range javelins of your native units and the solifera of the Iberian units, you can rip half an army to shreds before they reach your lines.

**anubis88** · 12-01-2009, 19:42

I agree they are underpowered. Phalanxes often dont get a singe dead men when i hit them with javelins frome the front, even at point blanke range. That's just wierd

**seienchin** · 12-01-2009, 19:55

That is not a javelinn problem. Its a problem about the phalangitai having 5 shield, which is even doubled when in phalanx mode-

**Ludens** · 12-01-2009, 21:32

Originally Posted by seienchin

That is not a javelinn problem. Its a problem about the phalangitai having 5 shield, which is even doubled when in phalanx mode-

I am pretty sure that the story that shield value is doubled by phalanx mode is myth. The 1.2 patch doubled shield value against missiles, but this was for all units, not just spearmen in phalanx mode.

**seienchin** · 12-02-2009, 01:19

Originally Posted by Ludens

I am pretty sure that the story that shield value is doubled by phalanx mode is myth. The 1.2 patch doubled shield value against missiles, but this was for all units, not just spearmen in phalanx mode.

Ah okay. Sorry. Still I have the feeling phalangitai rarely take hits from arrows. Still their shieldvalue is 5, which is higher than most units (Nearly all?

) making them incredible resistant to javelinnes.

**antisocialmunky** · 12-02-2009, 01:36

Originally Posted by Ludens

I am pretty sure that the story that shield value is doubled by phalanx mode is myth. The 1.2 patch doubled shield value against missiles, but this was for all units, not just spearmen in phalanx mode.

Ludens is right. However, javelins are a just a little too weak when compared to arrows or slingers of death for taking out armored targets. :-\

**Cambyses** · 12-02-2009, 03:12

Were akontistai really hunters? I mean was anyone non-noble really a hunter in developed and populous areas of the ancient world, such as Greece? IMO these guys were "cannon fodder" designed to slow down and tire out the enemy, not score large numbers of kills.

**Megas Methuselah** · 12-02-2009, 04:03

Originally Posted by Cambyses

Were akontistai really hunters? I mean was anyone non-noble really a hunter in developed and populous areas of the ancient world, such as Greece? IMO these guys were "cannon fodder" designed to slow down and tire out the enemy, not score large numbers of kills.

Urban poor that would do just as good, if not more, in serving as a ship's rowers? Dunno. We must keep in mind, though, that this was a primarily rural society.

**Tollheit** · 12-02-2009, 09:21

Originally Posted by Ludens

I am pretty sure that the story that shield value is doubled by phalanx mode is myth.

What is your reasoning for this?

Phalanx units are virtually impervious vs missiles from the front when in phalanx mode, while I do get some odd casualties when not in phalanx mode. That seems to be my experience, at least, which seems to fit nicely with doubled phalanx shield value.

I. e. I assume shield value is doubled vs. missiles and doubled again by phalanx mode.

Which is why I reverted to the vanilla shield value system for phalanxes (3 for levy phalanx, 4 for other phalanx) and raised their defence skill.