javelins too weak?

**anubis88** · 12-01-2009, 19:42

I agree they are underpowered. Phalanxes often dont get a singe dead men when i hit them with javelins frome the front, even at point blanke range. That's just wierd

**seienchin** · 12-01-2009, 19:55

That is not a javelinn problem. Its a problem about the phalangitai having 5 shield, which is even doubled when in phalanx mode-

**Ludens** · 12-01-2009, 21:32

Originally Posted by seienchin

That is not a javelinn problem. Its a problem about the phalangitai having 5 shield, which is even doubled when in phalanx mode-

I am pretty sure that the story that shield value is doubled by phalanx mode is myth. The 1.2 patch doubled shield value against missiles, but this was for all units, not just spearmen in phalanx mode.

**seienchin** · 12-02-2009, 01:19

Originally Posted by Ludens

I am pretty sure that the story that shield value is doubled by phalanx mode is myth. The 1.2 patch doubled shield value against missiles, but this was for all units, not just spearmen in phalanx mode.

Ah okay. Sorry. Still I have the feeling phalangitai rarely take hits from arrows. Still their shieldvalue is 5, which is higher than most units (Nearly all?

) making them incredible resistant to javelinnes.

**antisocialmunky** · 12-02-2009, 01:36

Originally Posted by Ludens

I am pretty sure that the story that shield value is doubled by phalanx mode is myth. The 1.2 patch doubled shield value against missiles, but this was for all units, not just spearmen in phalanx mode.

Ludens is right. However, javelins are a just a little too weak when compared to arrows or slingers of death for taking out armored targets. :-\

**Cambyses** · 12-02-2009, 03:12

Were akontistai really hunters? I mean was anyone non-noble really a hunter in developed and populous areas of the ancient world, such as Greece? IMO these guys were "cannon fodder" designed to slow down and tire out the enemy, not score large numbers of kills.

**Megas Methuselah** · 12-02-2009, 04:03

Originally Posted by Cambyses

Were akontistai really hunters? I mean was anyone non-noble really a hunter in developed and populous areas of the ancient world, such as Greece? IMO these guys were "cannon fodder" designed to slow down and tire out the enemy, not score large numbers of kills.

Urban poor that would do just as good, if not more, in serving as a ship's rowers? Dunno. We must keep in mind, though, that this was a primarily rural society.

**Knight of Heaven** · 12-02-2009, 04:27

Actualy in reality the javelins werent a killers in ancient battlefields. Their role often was to soften a charge, their kill rates werent that high.

The romans for instance would know the importance of kiling the momento of the enemy charge with their pilum. But javelins werent killers by no means. the same for slingers and even archers. Only units with a special training in composite bows, were that much efective. i think EB portrait this very well in my opinion.

**Tollheit** · 12-02-2009, 09:21

Originally Posted by Ludens

I am pretty sure that the story that shield value is doubled by phalanx mode is myth.

What is your reasoning for this?

Phalanx units are virtually impervious vs missiles from the front when in phalanx mode, while I do get some odd casualties when not in phalanx mode. That seems to be my experience, at least, which seems to fit nicely with doubled phalanx shield value.

I. e. I assume shield value is doubled vs. missiles and doubled again by phalanx mode.

Which is why I reverted to the vanilla shield value system for phalanxes (3 for levy phalanx, 4 for other phalanx) and raised their defence skill.

**Rahwana** · 12-02-2009, 13:29

Originally Posted by Tollheit

What is your reasoning for this?

Phalanx units are virtually impervious vs missiles from the front when in phalanx mode, while I do get some odd casualties when not in phalanx mode. That seems to be my experience, at least, which seems to fit nicely with doubled phalanx shield value.

I. e. I assume shield value is doubled vs. missiles and doubled again by phalanx mode.

Which is why I reverted to the vanilla shield value system for phalanxes (3 for levy phalanx, 4 for other phalanx) and raised their defence skill.

You means that even in 3 shield values, the phalanx got 12 shield against missile in phalanx mode?

**Ludens** · 12-02-2009, 14:48

Originally Posted by Tollheit

What is your reasoning for this?

In EB, well-shielded units such as legionaries are already very resistant to missile fire. Phalangites have the highest shield value and good armour as well, so you'd expect them to be almost immune. Also, I'd expect this feature to be documented somewhere, or else that would have discovered it during testing, but no-one seems to know whether this occurred.