Do as we say, but don't do as we do.

[Andres]

Copenhagen climate summit: 1,200 limos, 140 private planes and caviar wedges.

The title says it all, really.

I'm not a scientist and I'm not at all qualified to tell you if the climate hype is justified or not, but when these are the messengers, I'm very much tempted to say that the sea level can't raise fast enough as far as I'm concerned. Drown the climate clowns, the sooner the better.

I'm so disgusted by this, that I'm very much tempted to drive 140 km/h in fourth accelaration (read: in waste as much benzine as possbile mode) and to put the central heating at "indoor temperature 40° C" to accelerate the climate warming process.



If you're going to wave with your finger and lecture other people, then you better make sure you're the rolemodel and not the best example of how it is NOT supposed to be done.

I prefer drowning over letting these people tell me what to do. Do they really expect us to take them serious?

Bunch of idiots. them and their climate nonsense. I refuse to be lectured and told what I'm supposed to do by those hypocrites.

According to the organisers, the eleven-day conference, including the participants' travel, will create a total of 41,000 tonnes of "carbon dioxide equivalent", equal to the amount produced over the same period by a city the size of Middlesbrough.
The temptation, then, is to dismiss the whole thing as a ridiculous circus. Many of the participants do not really need to be here. And far from "saving the world," the world's leaders have already agreed that this conference will not produce any kind of binding deal, merely an interim statement of intent.

[Sarmatian]

All those limos and planes are environment friendly, they run on smiles and happy thoughts. Caviar is totally natural.


Seriously though, what did you expect? That they'll show up riding horses?

[Andres]

All those limos and planes are environment friendly, they run on smiles and happy thoughts. Caviar is totally natural.


Seriously though, what did you expect? That they'll show up riding horses?

If the end of the world is nigh, then I expect the messengers to behave accordingly.

Through their behaviour, these people have lost their credibility.

You're in Serbia and I'm in Belgium and we're communicating without wasting billions liters of kerosine and without eating kaviar. If simple men as us can do that, then why can't they?

Hypocrites. The whole lot of them.

[Furunculus]

too much methane.

all ruminants need to be culled in order to achieve the great social utopia.

[caravel]

What about the ants?

[Andres]

Not to mention the Holy Prophet of Climate Change, Mister utility bill 30.000 $ Al Gore.

Where's that sea level? Drown me already, please. If these are the idiots we're counting on to save the planet, then we might as well stop our attempts right here and now.

Whatever the plan is, it's doomed to fail if it's organised and executed by these guys.

Absurd.

[caravel]

Gah, it's called politics. It involves pretending to be addressing such issues, not actually addressing them.

[InsaneApache]

Gah, it's called politics. It involves pretending to be addressing such issues, not actually addressing them.

It's about raising more and more taxes until the pips squeak.

[Sarmatian]

Gah, it's called politics. It involves pretending to be addressing such issues, not actually addressing them.

God forbid if politicians start addressing issues, we'd be homeless and hungry. They're there just to set the framework so that people who know what they're doing can actually start addressing those issues.

[Beskar]

I would definitely change the system and all would be good.

[Furunculus]

God forbid if politicians start addressing issues, we'd be homeless and hungry. They're there just to set the framework so that people who know what they're doing can actually start addressing those issues.

i'd be fine with that actually, i have little love for this current age of the disinterested expert technocrat.

[Mithrandir]

Wow... just wow....

And this being Scandinavia, even the prostitutes are doing their bit for the planet. Outraged by a council postcard urging delegates to "be sustainable, don't buy sex," the local sex workers' union – they have unions here – has announced that all its 1,400 members will give free intercourse to anyone with a climate conference delegate's pass. The term "carbon dating" just took on an entirely new meaning.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Where's that sea level? Drown me already, please.

At last, sense has reached Flanders!!

[Louis VI the Fat]

Copenhagen climate summit: 1,200 limos, 140 private planes and caviar wedges.

The title says it all, really.

I'm not a scientist and I'm not at all qualified to tell you if the climate hype is justified or not

You read the wrong newspaper.

The Outragograph does not analyse. It looks at the world from the most uncharitable manner, and then vomits out the daily dose of outrage for its readers. It's the Sun without page three girls.

For one, there's a crucial misconception behind the outrage. Namely, those 20.000 participants in the summit would still drive, eat and fly without this summit.

Besides, it is commonly accepted that it is unfeasable to reduce pollution by reverting back to cave people economy. We'll all still drive and eat fifty years from now.

The only solution is to strive for renewable energy, use renewable resources, and live sustanaibly. This will require international co-operation, which is stimulated by the pressures of a high profile meeting.

(Also: 'climate hype'? That's a politicised Outragograph term. 'Climate change', or perhaps 'climate uncertainty' is more neutral and factual, not ascribing to a politicised discourse)

[Andres]

You read the wrong newspaper.

The Outragograph does not analyse. It looks at the world from the most uncharitable manner, and then vomits out the daily dose of outrage for its readers. It's the Sun without page three girls.

For one, there's a crucial misconception behind the outrage. Namely, those 20.000 participants in the summit would still drive, eat and fly without this summit.

Besides, it is commonly accepted that it is unfeasable to reduce pollution by reverting back to cave people economy. We'll all still drive and eat fifty years from now.

The only solution is to strive for renewable energy, use renewable resources, and live sustanaibly. This will require international co-operation, which is stimulated by the pressures of a high profile meeting.

(Also: 'climate hype'? That's a politicised Outragograph term. 'Climate change', or perhaps 'climate uncertainty' is more neutral and factual, not ascribing to a politicised discourse)

So a newspaper which points out the hypocrisy of the climate guys, is a rag?

Sorry, Louis, but I fail to see how these clowns are not being a bunch of hypocrites.

To me, it's the same as that Belgian Union leader who defends the rights of the common man, while driving around in a luxury car with his personal driver.



I detest hypocrisy.

If the message is so important, then pay close attention to your behaviour and credibility. At the very least, these caviar eating fools are incapable of being the messengers.

I don't mind people eating caviar or having a private jet, but if you're going to a frickin climate conference and you're going to pretend that you care oh so much about the climate and that you will fight emissions of whatever gases by evil planes, cars and industry, then don't be so moronic to go to said conference using the worst possible ways of transport. Eating caviar during the conference doesn't help your credibility either.

They should all get the sack. If there's a message to tell, then I want it to be brought by better messengers or I simply refuse to listen.

Yes, I'm stubborn.

[Louis VI the Fat]

To me, it's the same as that Belgian Union leader who defends the rights of the common man, while driving around in a luxury car with his personal driver.



I detest hypocrisy.

Do you dissaprove of well-fed people fighting hunger? Of lunch being served at a conference to fight malnutrition?

Do you disapprove of people with homes attenting a conference to curb homelessness? Of telling homeless people what to do when they themselves go home to a warm, cozy home at night?



These politicians are not the messengers. They are our servants, send to Copenhagen to work out a sustainable climate deal. They're not there to make a moral appeal, but to work out an international agreement.

[Meneldil]

For all I care, this Congress is useless, these people are tools, and we're all doomed.

[ajaxfetish]

Do you dissaprove of well-fed people fighting hunger? Of lunch being served at a conference to fight malnutrition?

Do you disapprove of people with homes attenting a conference to curb homelessness? Of telling homeless people what to do when they themselves go home to a warm, cozy home at night?



These politicians are not the messengers. They are our servants, send to Copenhagen to work out a sustainable climate deal. They're not there to make a moral appeal, but to work out an international agreement.

People fighting hunger are not encouraging us all to stop eating. People fighting homelessness are not encouraging us all to live on the streets.

Surely there are commercial flights, trains, and such that travel to Copenhagen? Buses or taxis for local travel?

Ajax

[Beskar]

People fighting hunger are not encouraging us all to stop eating. People fighting homelessness are not encouraging us all to live on the streets.

Surely there are commercial flights, trains, and such that travel to Copenhagen? Buses or taxis for local travel?

Ajax

Sending politicians to international meetings on budget class with domestic bus services... oh my oh my... that would produce some interesting results.

[Andres]

Do you dissaprove of well-fed people fighting hunger? Of lunch being served at a conference to fight malnutrition?

Do you disapprove of people with homes attenting a conference to curb homelessness? Of telling homeless people what to do when they themselves go home to a warm, cozy home at night?

People drinking champagne at breakfeast, wearing expensive clothes, having 4 luxury cars in front of each of their 3 villa's won't have much credibility when they claim to be "defending the poor and fighting the injustice in the world". At least not in my book. At best, I will ridiculise them, but normally I tend to ignore such hypocrites since I don't think they really have other people's best interest in mind.

That and what ajaxfetish said.

I understand international agreements need to be made and important people need to be able to travel fast.

What I do not understand is :

According to the organisers, the eleven-day conference, including the participants' travel, will create a total of 41,000 tonnes of "carbon dioxide equivalent", equal to the amount produced over the same period by a city the size of Middlesbrough.
The temptation, then, is to dismiss the whole thing as a ridiculous circus. Many of the participants do not really need to be here. And far from "saving the world," the world's leaders have already agreed that this conference will not produce any kind of binding deal, merely an interim statement of intent.

There won't be an "international agreement", at best merely an "interim statement of intent", which is the equivalent of "they'll be wasting their time in Copenhagen". Well, not just time, also valuable resources and of course they'll create a massive output of the stuff they say we should limit the output from.

We're also not talking about politicians who have to be there, since apparently many of the participants don't really need to be there.

And the scientists can publish their articles. There is this thing called internet, so their colleagues can read their findings and comment on it; they can even use a vbulletin forum to discuss things; there is something like webcams and telephones.

15.000 people getting laid for free when they show some id, eating caviar and moving themselves in limousines is unnecessary and not exactly a good example of being economic with our resources.

These politicians are not the messengers. They are our servants, send to Copenhagen to work out a sustainable climate deal. They're not there to make a moral appeal, but to work out an international agreement.

"My servants" are not being paid for using tax money for their own pleasures, like unnecessary trips abroad, in private jets, while eating kaviar and drinking champagne and spending time with prostitutes in the meanwhile accomplishing nothing worthwhile (unless you see "merely an interim statement of intent" as an accomplishment).

I expect "my servants" to be the example; their behaviour disgusts me to a degree that I'm not interested in whatever message they are bringing. They failed. Their behaviour reduced this summit to a joke.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Meh. North Europeans brutes and their failure to understand the fine art of living well and declaring costs.



Anyway, most of what you say can be held against the politico-scientific complex in general. They would eat lavish lunches and get driven around in limousines even when not attending this summit. Everything they do would be disqualified. One can't single out one summit in particular and disqualify its outcome because of general discontent with the lavish spending of politicians.

That is where the article gets it wrong.


The article also loses a sense of perspective:
The wisdom of flying 20000 people halfway around the world to reach an agreement to cut flying is questionable. Even so, it is more a matter of perception and public relations than of any significant amount of pollution. Thousands of summits and scientific congresses are held across the world every day.

For the actual pollution generated, it is but a little drop. If the summit manages to reduce airplane pollution by 0,01% it will have a net result.

As for not having a live meeting in the first place - a congress has a logic of its own. Personal contact, seredipitous meeting of minds, these are difficult to replace with technology.

[Whacker]

I don't buy the whole climate change, Al Gore-esque bullpoopy that's flung around by rabid eco nuts these days. Human arrogance at it's finest, thinking we can so quickly affect such changes to a huge, complex planet. We have solid climate data for maybe the past 100, 150 years. We are only beginning to understand this world we live on and how it operates. If you count from 1900, that's 110 years we've been scientifically knowledgeable. The earth is 4.5 billion years old. Puts some real perspective on it.

There's no doubt in my mind that we are beginning to cause certain changes through our use and misuse of nature's resources, but not on the scale some fearmongers would have us believe.

That said, I am 100% behind reducing human impact on nature. We need clean, cheap, renewable energy. We need to stop tearing down the rain forests hand over fist, digging up mountains in search of dead dinosaur goo, and burning tons of nasty polluting fuels (I'm looking at you, China.) Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.

[Strike For The South]

blah blah blah I like shiney things and pretty dresses blah blah blah.

The whole point is they should be setting the example if it is as big of a deal as they say.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The whole point is they should be setting the example if it is as big of a deal as they say.

Meh. Me I am happy that the environmental movement has matured. That politicians are taking up its issues.

What would you have? Send smelly treehuggers riding their bicycle to Copenhagen, eating nothing but vega-biotic seaweeds to 'set an example'? Would that move the world in the right direction?

[Strike For The South]

Meh. Me I am happy that the environmental movement has matured. That politicians are taking up its issues.

What would you have? Send smelly treehuggers riding their bicycle to Copenhagen, eating nothing but vega-biotic seaweeds to 'set an example'? Would that move the world in the right direction?

Fly buisness class and take the bus. I could care less about the fish eggs.

This is one of those ivory tower things I've heard so much about.

[Andres]

What would you have? Send smelly treehuggers riding their bicycle to Copenhagen, eating nothing but vega-biotic seaweeds to 'set an example'? Would that move the world in the right direction?

Nobody said that

How many more billions of tax money have to be wasted and how many more unnecessary polution is there needed to actually do something useful and reach results?

So much tralala for a result = merely an interim statement of intent? Are they saving the world or is this a grotesque copy of Belgian BHV negotiations?

[Beskar]

What would you have? Send smelly treehuggers riding their bicycle to Copenhagen, eating nothing but vega-biotic seaweeds to 'set an example'? Would that move the world in the right direction?

You mean send our elected councillors from the Green party?

I nicked named the Green party members here as the teletubbies with their eco-friendly green mud mounds with little windturbines and gardens. No civilisation for miles around with bunny rabbits hopping along while the sun has a babies face smiling down on them as they wear bright coloured macs, never wash and have a copy of Al Gore's film being played on their stomachs.

[Kralizec]

The fact that this conference will produce over 40 thousand tons of CO2, coupled with an initiative that will make sure that at least the christmas tree won't contribute, is just surreal.

The Outragograph does not analyse.

Ad hominem!

I'm not bothered about world leaders flying their lazy bums around while eating caviar, generally speaking. What does bother me is that the whole thing appears to be little more than a circus, or rather bread and circuses for the masses while they do their utmost best to look as if they're doing something truly historic. Moreso because of the utterly symbolic BS initiatives like the one I mentioned above.

[Crazed Rabbit]

This shows how much they believe in the restrictions they're pushing.

It's about government control - of people, of business. The accursed EPA in the US has just found that CO2 is a pollutant, so now they can heavily regulate it, and us, back to the stone age.

It's the world's grandest lie.

Because of computer models, based on faulty and politicized science, the common man supposed to destroy his way of life. At worst the alarmists promise a slight temperature rise.

CR

[Furunculus]

i don't know about you guys, but i certainly detect a greater skepticism to the 'consensus' than was evident even six months ago. is it just me?