Civil Servants

[Ja'chyra]

Now this is mainly aimed at the UK people here but probably applies all around the world.

For those that don't know I'm a civil servant, MOD to be precise, and over the past 6-12 months we have come in for an increasingly hard from everything from being desk polishers and completely useless to being paid too much and having gold plated pensions.

I'd just like the view of any Orgahs who have an opinion on what they see civil servants as, paragons of virtue? Evil money wasters? Or something in between.

As the UK seems to be almost broke what do we think would actually save money?

Personally I think attacking civil servants terms and conditions isn't the way to go, funny that eh, the civil service has always been underpaid for the jobs we do and this was offset somewhat by having a slightly better pension and things like job security. Not to say that we don't have to become more efficient but I don't think 10% staff cuts per year consistently for the past 5 years is the way to do it, I would rather see a strategic look over the whole service with someone actually making a decision on what projects are needed and what ones are so horribly set up they should be scrapped and started again.

So ehat does everyone else think?

[Furunculus]

Generally -

I take the view that we ran India with a civil service that numbered in hundreds, so it is inexcusable that little old britain needs a civil service that has long since shot past half a million full time employees, not to mention the extra ~100,000 part time manequins.

I accept that we no longer live in the 1800's, and that government has many other jobs society expects sit to fulfill, but i reject the acceptance of labour governments that there is always more that can be done requiring an ever greater number of civil servants to achieve.

There is no two ways around it, the civil service represents the unproductive part of society, and to keep them in employ requires the taxation of the productive part of society, a factor that gets more out-of-whack every time a gender equality officer is employed.

Specifically -

Re: the MOD; I accept the view of another MOD civil servant who knows more about the matter than I, to whit;

"As to the MoD; of the 85000 CS, 2500 are RFA, another several thousand are MPGS / MOD GS / MOD Police. Several tens of thousands more are manual workers, labourers, nursery assistants etc. The actual number of desk bound CS in London of all grades is about 2000, of which maybe half have real influence. A 25% cut as posited by the Conservatives would merely reduce further the support provided to HM Forces. Not that i disagree that there is not waste to be cut, but not as much as people suppose."

There is certainly a case for scaling back the MOD, but i have a much more sympathy for the MOD than other less fiscally neglected corners of public spending, because those civil servants are part of the reason why Britain still maintains the range of capabilities that preserve its great power status.

[Azathoth]

Nathaniel Hawthorne thought civil service jobs would turn you into a lazy leech and shell of a man, but he was a Democrat, so, you know...

[Kralizec]

This reminds me of that thread about Norse soldiers and junkies...

The perception is mostly the same in the Netherlands. Personally I think there are quite a few areas where the state should withdraw from, and that we could manage with less government employees. I don't blame individual civil servants though (except the ones higher-up who lead deparments) and I can see that it must be frustrating to hear all these complaints on a regular basis.

[tibilicus]

Aren't most civil servants well educated folk who make a bomb? Don't really have an opinion on the civil service, maybe it's a bit to big, that's my only complaint.

[Slyspy]

Generally speaking I think the salary is on the low side, but the pension is good. Of course that might just mean another pensions blackhole in the making.

[Furunculus]

Generally speaking I think the salary is on the low side, but the pension is good. Of course that might just mean another pensions blackhole in the making.

the pension is so good that those 500,000 civil servants are responsible for making the taxpayer foot the bill for over £1 trillion in unfunded pension liabilities.

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/peter_barn...overnment_debt

[Husar]

They're all paper nazis.

Just kidding, I always hear how they're evil people who just want our monies but the ones I've met were mostly nice (includes the one in the OP), I guess most of them want a job like everyone else and being employed by the government ensures some security etc.
Overall it depends on the individual, as usual.

[Kralizec]

Just to be clear, in the UK "civil servants" only refers to people who work for the national government, right?

[Beskar]

No, that is Public Sector worker. They are generally paid far less than private sector equivant (and there was always the problem of people only using public sector for CV experience and paid-for-training then running off) but generally have job security.

Civil Servant in UK definition are those that are employed and work on behalf of the Crown and not parliament, though they can usually work for ministers. More information here: http://www.civilservant.org.uk/definitions.shtml

[Kralizec]

That's more or less what I meant - in practice, "the crown" is more or less the same as the government, wich doesn't include parliament. And by national I meant for the UK as such.

Point was, people who work for the Scottish government or city halls etc. don't qualify as civil servants.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Civil servants perform necessary roles, but there are too many of them and many of their jobs can be better performed by private sector employees at a better price to both the employee and the taxpayer.

My one sentence summary of my position.

[Beskar]

Civil servants perform necessary roles, but there are too many of them and many of their jobs can be better performed by private sector employees at a better price to both the employee and the taxpayer.

My one sentence summary of my position.

Though the private sector equivalent gets paid more money and is a sure way to make any more problems worse? Also private interests would destroy any public interest which ultimately makes it far worse for everyone except those exploiting this.