Why I'm Leaving the Left/Right

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Strangely enough, I found myself agreeing with that left position, I could see how Obama would need to keep the war alive, which results in more deaths and money thrown at it in order to keep an image of a "Strong America" domestically. It wasn't really outrageous, it is only outrageous if some one is in denial of the unfortunate truth. (Like people who can't stand butchers, because it reeks of "death" but are happy enough in eating their burgers and steaks)

I also found myself agreeing with the criticisms of the right position, which is pretty factual representations.

So you agree with the american Radical Left.

I suppose these two demonstrate that not everyone in either party is insane, but also that "normal" people are starting to jump ship in the face of extremism. This is bad for American politics, and therefore for everyone else.

[Beskar]

So you agree with the american Radical Left.

It was argubly very tactless writing and very blunt, but it wasn't incorrect. Obama would have to keep the war going in many ways in order not to appear weak and appease to the American Gunho Right and Swing-voters.

How is that incorrect in anyway?

[Furunculus]

It was argubly very tactless writing and very blunt, but it wasn't incorrect. Obama would have to keep the war going in many ways in order not to appear weak and appease to the American Gunho Right and Swing-voters.

How is that incorrect in anyway?

so he is representing the interests of his electorate, how appealing that is given the failure of our own politicians to do the same.

[Beskar]

so he is representing the interests of his electorate, how appealing that is given the failure of our own politicians to do the same.

I think Gordon Brown doesn't even know what a interest of his electorate is to represent. However, as you put it, he is representing the interests of his electorate, however, how is the view given across still wrong? Since the person is against the war, it isn't representing their interest so they are voicing the consequences of representing them (in the not well handled manner). So they are not incorrect in their statements (still).

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It was argubly very tactless writing and very blunt, but it wasn't incorrect. Obama would have to keep the war going in many ways in order not to appear weak and appease to the American Gunho Right and Swing-voters.

How is that incorrect in anyway?

It was blunt, but not tactless because you had already indicated an opinion that Obama would spend lives to get re-elected. It might by true, but Obama has said from the start the Afgan War was important, and it is. Why you ask? Well, because if we don't leave the country in a half-decent state our children or someone else's will be going back there in 10-20 years.

A belief in failure in Afganistan is more than anything a belief that the Afganis are incapable of being civilised and peacable. It's classic left-ist Racism and you should support it.

[Beskar]

A belief in failure in Afganistan is more than anything a belief that the Afganis are incapable of being civilised and peacable. It's classic left-ist Racism and you should support it.

I don't believe Afghan's can't be civilised or peaceable. On the contrary, I believe they can be.

However, if believing they can be involves setting up permament military bases over the country, I think some one is not actually "thinking" because doing that action would imply that they can't be and need us to babysit them. (The Opinion of the Right)

So I am sure that assisting the Afghans then leaving it in their hands does not equal "leftist racism" which is what I advocate. It could be argued that life under the taleban was far more stable than life there now, which would mean it was a bad idea to go in there in the first place.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I don't believe Afghan's can't be civilised or peaceable. On the contrary, I believe they can be.

However, if believing they can be involves setting up permament military bases over the country, I think some one is not actually "thinking" because doing that action would imply that they can't be and need us to babysit them. (The Opinion of the Right)

So I am sure that assisting the Afghans then leaving it in their hands does not equal "leftist racism" which is what I advocate. It could be argued that life under the taleban was far more stable than life there now, which would mean it was a bad idea to go in there in the first place.

Thn you agree with President Obama? He has advocated an Iraq-style surge in order to stabalise the country, then leave.

[CrossLOPER]

A belief in failure in Afganistan is more than anything a belief that the Afganis are incapable of being civilised and peacable. It's classic left-ist Racism and you should support it.

I always thought it was more of a type of defensive apathy which closely mimics isolationist policies and serving only immediate interests related to a specifically outline desired outcome without trying to enlighten every individual you come across.

[a completely inoffensive name]

A belief in failure in Afganistan is more than anything a belief that the Afganis are incapable of being civilised and peacable. It's classic left-ist Racism and you should support it.

Not necessarily. Democracy requires the population's support to maintain, if the population does not stand up to purge their own government of blatant corruption or stand up to fight and protect against Taliban attacks, then obviously the country is incapable of building and maintaining itself and it would be pointless to keep troops there for that purpose. Not saying that is the case, but granted we have been there 8 years already and what progress have we seen from Afghan citizens?

[A Very Super Market]

Since when did it become racism to make rational connections? Democracy is seen as a "western" notion simply because it is. Centuries in a conflicted and cramped continent creates the most potential for more advanced ideas in society. Europe has gone through so much crap that almost nothing can faze it, and it's grown mature enough to deal with it's problems without creating too much political chaos (Maybe not Italy). Meanwhile, you can look at Africa, or Afghanistan, and see a population that hasn't seen much besides authoritarianism, suppression, and anarchy. Not the enviroment that would foster the educated base of democracy, or anything besides semi-tribal behaviour. I'm not making any statements regarding the intelligence of these people, as that is a trait constant throughout the species, but simply their level of education. As the US cannot suddenly comprehensively westernise and school every Afghan adult, the only real long-term solution for a democracy there would be an extended occupation, coupled with significant government investment in the well-being of the country. Which would no doubt bring calls of Imperialism, a path I have no desire in arguing. I simply believe that the US will not succeed in putting a democracy in place in such a place without tremendous measures.

Of course, if the Amis only wish to stabilise the area, that is a much more feasible idea. What they're doing now is well enough for that purpose.

[HoreTore]

A belief in failure in Afganistan is more than anything a belief that the Afganis are incapable of being civilised and peacable. It's classic left-ist Racism and you should support it.

Nonsense.

It's a belief that a society can never be civilized when corrupt rulers are kept in position by foreign powers. If one actually wants Afghanistan to be a working country, step one should be to put Karzai and his corrupt cronies on the first ship to the melting North Pole....

[Watchman]

Practical problem, though - where are you going to find someone meaningfully better to replace him ? Nevermind now that Afghanistan is basically entirely devoid of what might be called the "basic foundations" of what is considered effective, reasonably impartial and honest governance by "Western" standards...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Nonsense.

It's a belief that a society can never be civilized when corrupt rulers are kept in position by foreign powers. If one actually wants Afghanistan to be a working country, step one should be to put Karzai and his corrupt cronies on the first ship to the melting North Pole....

Mo, step one should be to find Afgan investigators capable of impeaching him and keep them alive long enough to pull it off. At the same time, spreading television and radio coverage, as well as supporting independant stations.