A counter for monks... at least in single player

[Scipio Valorus]

The mighty Warrior Monks, invincible, unstoppable, fearsome fist of the Ikko-Ikki. Bringer of death, router of armies, terror of the battlefield.

No more!

Consider. The cost of Monks are 500 koku. A fair price, for a terror of a unit. Here's my monk-smasher brigade:

Ashigaru.


Ok, you're still here. Good. Note that I didn't say Yari Ashigaru, but I didn't exclude them out of hand either. Take 3 Teppo Ashigaru and two Yari Ashigaru. That's five units at a bill of 500 koku. Still interested? Good. Position the teppo in a 3 rank line, covered on the flanks by obliqely positioned Yari Ashigaru, preferably on hills. The typically impertuous monks will charge the teppo, and at the right time, charge the YA at the monk's flanks. You'll have the monks every time.

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The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is a matter of life and death, a road to either safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected.

[solypsist]

my own counter for monks is usually a few units of archer cav (with a more balanced army hiding in the woods or somewhere else). My cav archers simply while away their time picking off monks; while the monks (the AI is pretty predictible) spends its energy chasing after my cav, the bulk of my army sets up somewhere advantageous. once the CA have run out of ammo (or the timer is halfway around) i recall my CA behind my new lines and let my army deal with the rest of the now-depleted monks (with line archers and remaining cav archers continuing to shower the enemy while my combat troops engage). it works pretty well against the Kaga Ronin army in the campaign, which is usually almost all-monk early in the game.

the cost of archer cav are a little less than than monks, so this isn't a one-for-one strategy for fighting monks like above, just another suggestion.

[This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 06-12-2001).]

[Da Masta]

why not use monks yourself? the armys I've seen with monks had more then 1 unit.

[DarthGuru]

Thats a good point scipio,
But if you had money, think if you could fill the flanks with those terrorous monks instead of yaris

[Asakura Lord]

I agree with soly, I use some cav archers to pick off the monks and then wait until they get close enough and wipe them out with my own monks or no dachi, with more archers raining down their fury.

[shingenmitch2]

Your tactic is all well and good as long as you have more open slots for units than the enemy does or it's a low koku battles. If the enemy starts getting more than 3 monks your tactic starts losing the numbers advantage. 1:5, 2:10, 3:15, 4:16, 5:16, 6:16

[Scipio Valorus]

Quote Originally posted by Da Masta:
why not use monks yourself? the armys I've seen with monks had more then 1 unit.[/QUOTE]

I'm trying not to use monks at all any more. Try not using them, it's really fun trying new ways of stopping those guys.

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The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is a matter of life and death, a road to either safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected.

[Scipio Valorus]

Quote Originally posted by shingenmitch2:
Your tactic is all well and good as long as you have more open slots for units than the enemy does or it's a low koku battles. If the enemy starts getting more than 3 monks your tactic starts losing the numbers advantage. 1:5, 2:10, 3:15, 4:16, 5:16, 6:16[/QUOTE]


Very good point, and true, my above tactic is more oriented to one monk unit, but for more, it is easily modified. For instance, add an extra arquebusier on the line and make those YA into Samurai instead and hold a No-Dachi unit in reserve to plug any breakthoughs. I used to think guns were a waste of time but no more. They don't seem to get that many kills, except over the long term battle, but their staying power coupled with their morale-busting gunfire volleys are quickly makeing them one of my favorite units.

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The art of war is of vital importance to the state. It is a matter of life and death, a road to either safety or to ruin. Hence under no circumstances can it be neglected.

[Vanya]

In SP? Just get a heavy cav! The enemy doest load up with yari anyways. And if you get them out of Shinano...

+1 honor just for making them there!
+ Always have armor (ie, required!)
+1 honor with legendary horse dojo.
+3 Morale with Legendary Palace
+2 Defense with Legendary armor
+3 Attack with Legendary weapons

AND if you are Takeda, they only cost you 450 Koku!! That is LESS than an Eddie Murphy anyways!!

That makes one nasty geezer! Send a yari at these pigs, and they will have to go crying back to their mama to have her pull it out of their arse!

You might say, geez, thats a lot of crap just to crank out an armor-plated, mounted sling-blade! So? Doing the same to get The Golden Child also takes a lot of investment. Plus, its fun to go out with these chaps and face the masses. And, you can usually get these quickly (not so developed) by the time your enemies discover Buddha!

Ask ye'r self: do ye follow the American doctrine of high-quality weapons in small numbers or the Soviet doctrine of low-quality weapons in huge numbers?

(The old 'Red Steam Roller' brings back memories of a fond era to Vanya... one where an army of loin-clothed, club-totting, stacked female Ashigaru numbering more than there are grains of sand on the beach came forth from the hinterlands in the North to challenge Vanya's supremacy... Naturally, he surrendered without a fight...)




[This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 06-12-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 06-12-2001).]

[Teng Fuh]

Me love Heavy Cav! Right on Vanya, but the game usually ends before I get to the palace, but no problem, they are still great even without suicide morale.

Other then the too-hard-to-get HC, I too use CA.

Nice plan with the guns and peons, but what happens when you hit Kaga, or Yamashiro where there are lots of Monks?

[Vanya]

Ronin monks are easy! Take archers or cav archers. Line up your men a good distance away. Send a unit to go fire on a monkie -- just one monkie now! He will give chase. Your entire army will crush the monkie after you give him an arrow diet. Repeat with the other monks. Just dont go after those Kaga bastids all at once or you will discover the true meaning of Buddha as preached by an H6 Golden Child...

And try slowing the game down... makes for interesting gameplay... even if you do have to face 'the Horde'...


[This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 06-13-2001).]