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  1. #1
    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: English words that conflict with your language.

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow View Post
    Those who are considered 'expert' speakers of English tend to achieve that perception based on the words they use, not how they arrange them.
    I think this is a good point. Pretty much every native speaker (except those with language disabilities) is going to arrange their words correctly. With the exception of a few prescriptive rules (unnecessary, as you pointed out), the most noticeable difference is likely to be word choice. With English's extensive borrowing from other languages, and its highly productive derivational system, we've got an awfully large set of words to choose from. Mastering the nuances of each term and reliably recalling the best word for each situation takes both talent and work.

    Ajax

    edit:
    Even with improper grammar usage, it is very easy to understand what someone is saying.
    This, on the other hand, I can't really agree with. If we take all the words in your post and arrange them without proper grammar usage, the result is incomprehensible, at least to me. I even kept each word in the same sentence to make it easier, but while I might get a vague idea of the topic from some of the words used, I wouldn't have a clue what was being said about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow with no grammar
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    Last edited by ajaxfetish; 12-24-2009 at 22:47.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: English words that conflict with your language.

    Why do I think of Scandinavia when I read that garbled post??

    (Or more precisely: why does the cadence of the garbled post make me think of Scandinavian languages?)
    Last edited by Tellos Athenaios; 12-24-2009 at 23:02.
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  3. #3
    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: English words that conflict with your language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    Why do I think of Scandinavia when I read that garbled post??

    (Or more precisely: why does the cadence of the garbled post make me think of Scandinavian languages?)
    I can't think of any reason..
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  4. #4
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: English words that conflict with your language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    Why do I think of Scandinavia when I read that garbled post??
    Same reason I do, think of Scandinavian women all the time.

  5. #5
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: English words that conflict with your language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    Why do I think of Scandinavia when I read that garbled post??

    (Or more precisely: why does the cadence of the garbled post make me think of Scandinavian languages?)
    Most likely is that it reminds you of the parodied versions they have in English speaking media.

    The only thing I can think of is that scandinavian grammar is often the same as the English one, but using constant direct translations would occationally give sentences with odd grammar.
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  6. #6
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: English words that conflict with your language.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxfetish View Post
    This, on the other hand, I can't really agree with. If we take all the words in your post and arrange them without proper grammar usage, the result is incomprehensible, at least to me. I even kept each word in the same sentence to make it easier, but while I might get a vague idea of the topic from some of the words used, I wouldn't have a clue what was being said about it.
    LOL, you've got me there. Clearly there are some levels of grammatical butchery which make English essentially incomprehensible. What I was imagining were the numerous grammatical errors which are common in people who are still in the early phases of learning or who have otherwise not learned the language properly. It seems like it would be almost impossible to know enough English words to actually use the proper ones, yet know so little of the structure that you speak gibberish. The paragraph you altered seems like something that would only be encountered in someone who had suffered damage to the language section of the brain, not something that would ever be encountered in an otherwise normal person.

    That said, I don't have a lot of experience to base any of this on. One of my friends teaches adult literacy, and he's told me about some amazing difficulties that his students encounter which are almost inconceivable for those of us who learned to read when we were young.
    Last edited by TinCow; 12-25-2009 at 00:47.


  7. #7
    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: English words that conflict with your language.

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow View Post
    The paragraph you altered seems like something that would only be encountered in someone who had suffered damage to the language section of the brain, not something that would ever be encountered in an otherwise normal person.
    Very true. You're really only ever going to run into that kind of serious grammatical deficiency in people who never learned a first language (deaf people not exposed to signing until teenagers or later, abused children isolated until the same age), people who've suffered strokes or otherwise damaged the language-related parts of the brain, and people with (probably heritable) language impairments.

    What I was imagining were the numerous grammatical errors which are common in people who are still in the early phases of learning or who have otherwise not learned the language properly.
    I know what you mean here, but I'd argue that those aren't errors, but features of non-standard dialects/ideolects. When it comes to language, the early phases of learning are 1.5 to 2.5 years. By 3 years old, the grammar is pretty much known. Rules that have to be drilled later are not a part of the language itself, but artificial add-ons. Of course, that doesn't mean it's not important to observe them in certain social settings, because a lot of how we judge people depends on whether they've learned those little add-ons.

    Ajax

    "I do not yet know how chivalry will fare in these calamitous times of ours." --- Don Quixote
    "I have no words, my voice is in my sword." --- Shakespeare
    "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." --- Jack Handey

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