Conversion to Christianity?

[chaouki]

and let the enemy's ninjas kill them for level up's :D

[Brandy Blue]

Well, I can't honestly say that I ever really thought about how conversion happens in the game. I just stepped up security, scattered churches throughout the land, and settled back to try to be a wise father to my smaller warriors, or whatever it is the Portugese ambassador called me. But now you've got me curious.

Looks like the game recognizes three models of how conversion happens.

1: Convert the boss. The rest will follow. Do people automatically convert to the rulers religion like in MTW?

2: The St Paul version. Send out the missionaries to convert people. That's what your Jesuit priests are for.

3: The base camp version. Monestaries, especially the one on Holy Isle, are supposed to have played a key role in the conversion of northern England, and so can your Japanese churches.

There are other ways to think about conversion, but the game seems to only consider these three. I wonder how things happened in real life. Some diamyos converted, but did that lead to mass conversions in their clans, or did the leader convert because thats what the clan was doing anyway? What role did the foreign priests play? Did they do most of the converting, or did Japanese Christians do most of the converting, while the priests mostly taught, preached, said the Mass, etc? I believe there was some sporadic persecution. On the whole did that weaken or strengthen Japanese Christianity? Well, later it pretty much stamped it out, but I mean in the period covered by the game.

[gollum]

Hello BB,
the Jesuits that arrived in Japan spread a militant vesion of Christianity and within a relatively short period of time they had converted large parts of the population including lords. The "Kirishitan" (Christians in Japanese accent) included foremost generals and Daimyos. The game offers you conversion from churches and priests, but not automatically from the conversion of the daimyo as in MTW that the religion of the faction automatically propagates - once you convert you need to convert your subjects and this can be a tricky period if not plpanned. There were sporadic persecutions, yes, and towards the end of the period large scale persecutions. Japanese Christians of teh period masquearaded statues of the Virgin as statues of the Boddhisattva Kannon (the Bodhisattva (enlightened being) of compassion, female in representation), and did other such camouflages, as collective law in Japan was (and is) pretty severe.

For more, have a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirishitan

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

I would not convert,in the game sense really.

The Matchlock ashaguri are good ,but not that good,the friebombers are ok.

There are many ways to defeat the peasent matchlock,even the samurai matchlock are no good.

No,I would not do it.

[gollum]

hello takeda shogunate - this is the forum for STW1, your comments sound for STW2 :) - but welcome nevertheless.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

oh,so you are my boss now?you're going to tell me what to do now?

[gollum]

heh, you're so charming when you get angry, you know that? :)

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

eh?????

[gollum]

What happened, can't read very well lately Emperor? :)

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

what happened?

[gollum]

eh?????

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

forget it,the only thing we have in common is that battle,when you buy it of course,I will battle with you.and I will if not take my revenge.

[gollum]

You have much more in common if only you could calm down and behave a little better and without anger...

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

you're the one that angered me in the first place.

lets forget this

and I will await ,then we battle on the game

[gollum]

You get angered by anyone who you judge not to be "nice" to you... because you want to be part of the place but without having to do the work for it... then you go nuts and ask for matches that you cannot win against people that actually have nothing against you and you should be making friends with... better calm down, cause the one that gets hurt is actually you, not me or anyone else you fight with... you are clearly young and new in the community so be a bit more patient... also remember who made first friends with you in this forum in your previous account that got banned because again you couldn't control your temper...

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

You called me a troll,you insulted me.You further said I was nothing more than some idiot who loves to troll/.

That was high level operating docteur ;) Thanks for it and for opening the thread :).

You get angered by anyone who you judge not to be "nice" to you...er...I dont get that.

ask for matches that you cannot win against people that actually have nothing against you.and?

Yeah,you hold something against me.

nd you should be making friends with...

Lets see,I have a whole load of enemies.

better calm down, cause the one that gets hurt is actually you
True.

also remember who made first friends with you in this forum in your previous account that got banned because again you couldn't control your temper.
yeah you did.


Is there anymore you need to say,anymore you can embarrass me?
anything else or can I get back to editing my story?

[gollum]

I never called you a troll nor an idiot. I said you were trolling and spamming. I called you fellow, and that is not a swear word. My problem was your actions not you personally. The reason your actions were a problem is because you want to show that you are and that you know more than you are and you know. When people expose you, they tell you that you are not as big as you want to show, you get angry. This is your mistake and it has nothing to do with insults. I like you to be honest with you, but i don't like your mistakes. If you calm down, be more patient and accept that you are new in this community and that there are others that know more and are better than you, then you will have a good time here and others around you too. If not, you will keep getting angry and getting infraction points, warnings, bans that will get you more angry and so even more hurt and with less friends and more points,warnings and bans. Choice is yours.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

you want to show that you are and that you know more than you are and you know. When people expose you, they tell you that you are not as big as you want to show, you get angry.

I was not happy in that thread that people could think they could insult CA.CA spend a lot of time creating this game,some respect should be given to them,least a thanks or something.

I'm not into boasting.Yes,there are more better players than me and more than I can ever hope to be(At this moment,whats the use of me becoming a good general,when I can't understand the basics.)

then you will have a good time here and others around you too
I doubt you highly on that comment.Before that thread I was having some good time at least.

I am calm now.

aslo could you check out my story?

give some critism?feedback?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...34700-My-story.

[caravel]

Hello Takeda Shogunate,

Criticism is not the same as insulting - you're right that insulting is wrong, but criticism is very necessary. Without criticism CA would not have improved the game to the level it is at today. In fact many are of the opinion that it has not improved enough, but that's another story.

Be calm, have fun take it easy. Don't worry about what other people say - if you like the game, that's enough.

I will check out your story.

Regards

Asai Nagamasa

[gollum]

Originally posted by Takeda Shogunate
I was not happy in that thread that people could think they could insult CA.CA spend a lot of time creating this game,some respect should be given to them,least a thanks or something.

People here have been buying, playing, organising tournaments, fansites, AARs etc for 10 years now. They criticise CA, as they try to tell you in that thread, because CA time and time again, has promised things that did not deliver over tthe last 10 years. People who play for that long know that as they had to live with those broken promises. As much as you want to defend them, many of the people in that thread were supporting CA even before TW became major success.

Also you fail to realise that the managers of CA are probably often more intent to have more sales than a good game. However the players here are intend in having the best game (no bugs etc) with the best gameplay (fix the stats for attack defence, the missiles etc) possible for mp and sp. This is not always going to happen if CA is not actively told that they need to fix it, because CA aims as i said more in selling. If nobody was paying attention to the game's faults CA would be all the more happier - as they wouldn't have to waste time to fix and improve the game.

You couldn't understand all this, understandably, because you are a new player and that's fine. What was not understandable was that you pushed for your point of view, without having the community and game and working with CA experiences. You just pushed because you "don't like to be told" like many young people. And then you get angry.

I'm not into boasting.

And yet you don't like to be corrected in the views you held. Instead of raising hell when your view is not accepted you are better off asking other people why you are wrong and think it over for a while to see if what they tell you might actually hold some truth. But you don;t do that. You just get angry and push with righteousness and confrontation. I realise that not all people have my p[atience to deal with younger members, but you are really pushing forward your opinions that in the eyes of experienced players are simply not true.

Instead of holding on to your opinions in this way, try to ask. Ask why they tell you you are wrong and think about it for a while and see the opinions of others n practice before you conclude.

You also need to realise that every forum has its own fans that view the game differently. Single players view the game very differently than multiplayers. You can't argue in an mp forum about sp. Again you got stuck in your opinion and didn't wanted to be told it was not good and pushed forward for it, until it was you against everyone there.

I doubt you highly on that comment.Before that thread I was having some good time at least.

As i said: i like you and think that, in time, if you manage to control your temper you can be a good member of this community. But if you can't you'll end up in similar troubles quite often.

I already enjoy your story, and wait for the next installment. Will give feedback as time allows.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

k.

I'll calm down.

But still well the CA thing can be debated somewhere else.

I do ask,But since I percieve the world in a very different way(I have a mental disability which is called autism and I get kinda angry)Its kinda hard for me to er...what was it?...erm....say if I wrote a story.I get critism,thats ok.But if its something else then its very difficult for me to do it.


Again you got stuck in your opinion and didn't wanted to be told it was not good and pushed forward for it, until it was you against everyone there.
haha!I like that.

The story's not finished,But I can assure I am writing and editing it .

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

Be calm, have fun take it easy. Don't worry about what other people say - if you like the game, that's enough.

K,will take your advice!

:).

[gollum]

[Kagemusha]

Self Moderation is a blessing. Thank you, gentlemen for handling this affair so well.

[gollum]

[Brandy Blue]

"For more, have a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirishitan"

Thank you gollum. So many nice people here ready to be helpful.

[gollum]

You're welcome BB.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Whew...a little late into the conversation but I'll try to add a few constructive koku......

The Matchlock ashaguri are good ,but not that good

This is what gollum was referring to when he said your comments were better placed in the S2TW forum...in the original STW, there are no seperate ashi/samurai teppo. There are only two kinds of teppo, arquebus & musket, and both are ashigaru.

For STW, I always convert to Christianity no matter which time period I play. For certain clans during certain time periods, it's nearly a matter of life or death to have guns. I simply cannot imagine playing the Oda 1580 campaign (on Expert) without guns. I consider myself a pretty decent SP, and a veteran at playing the Oda clan...whom I've probably played more than all the others combined. I don't think I could survive the Oda 1580 campaign without guns. [For an idea at how insane that campaign can get, take a look at my campaign AAR-Nobunaga's Ambition: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ga-s-Ambition].

If you lose Mino to either Takeda or Imagawa, you might as well restart...your interior provinces are too wide open, and you have very few troops with which to defend. And it won't be long before Shimazu comes knocking at your back door.

That's just one example of the usefulness of teppo. I also tend to think that folks that say guns are useless, generally don't know how to use them properly...I should know...I was one of those who often critisized their use, until I learned how to effectively use them on both offense and defense. If you happen to browse through my Nobunaga AAR, note the number of kills generated by my muskets. That single effect allowed me to save enough koku, while beating off repeated attacks on two fronts, to create new armies for my counterattack. I don't think I could've gotten as much mileage out of SA's.

[gollum]

Just for the record, and not as a comment on Reluctant Samurai's strategy and campaign: teppos (guns) are too powerful in the MI expansion. They are so powerful in fact that they can stop a cav charge while they were not meant to do so. Their shot power iirc was increased from 4 to 16, which has actually little meaning as the parameter saturates at 8, according to tests done by Puzz3D. This was not the case in the "old" original STW (the one in the red box). They can be brought back to their original values however in MI as unit stats and missile weapon stats are moddable in txt files. If anyone is interested how to do so, take a look at this post:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...old-unit-stats

The resulting gameplay is better because it requires more tactical combination of melee/missiles/cav units for good results in battle than having all too powerful guns imo.

[ReluctantSamurai]

teppos (guns) are too powerful in the MI expansion.

Indeed they are. I modded teppo at a midling range of 8, halving the original MI stat of 16.