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Thread: Changing Camillan Principes

  1. #1
    Member Member Dutchhoplite's Avatar
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    Default Changing Camillan Principes

    Hi all,

    I want to remove the pilum from the Camillan Principes but i've got a few questions.

    As i'm allmost a complete moddingnoob..

    Will removing the pilum from these early principes this have any effect on their Polybian counterparts??

    How do i actually do this??

    Is this save game compatible??

    Thanks

    DH
    I love the smell of bronze in the morning!

    Campaigns completed: Vanilla Seleucid, EB 1.2. Carthaginian, RSII Pergamon

  2. #2
    The Rhetorician Member Skullheadhq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchhoplite View Post
    Hi all,

    I want to remove the pilum from the Camillan Principes but i've got a few questions.

    As i'm allmost a complete moddingnoob..

    Will removing the pilum from these early principes this have any effect on their Polybian counterparts??

    How do i actually do this??

    Is this save game compatible??

    Thanks

    DH
    Just change some thingies in the EDU, and this IS save game compitable AFAIK.
    "When the candles are out all women are fair."
    -Plutarch, Coniugia Praecepta 46

  3. #3
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    Dropping the attack values of the pilum to 0 might do the trick, not quite sure though. In any case (most) EDU changes are savegame compatible.

    BTW, may I wonder as to the "why" ?
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  4. #4
    Member Member Dutchhoplite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    Well, its debatable and it "could" be a mistake but in his description of the battle of Beneventum Dionysius of Halicarnassus describes Roman Principes using thrusting spears like the hasta. This "could" mean they had not yet converted to the pilum and were in some sort of transitionory phase.

    Like i said, it's debatable but worth a try ;)
    Last edited by Dutchhoplite; 12-30-2009 at 19:59.
    I love the smell of bronze in the morning!

    Campaigns completed: Vanilla Seleucid, EB 1.2. Carthaginian, RSII Pergamon

  5. #5
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    ...don't Camillian Principes use spears for melee though...?
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  6. #6
    Bibliophilic Member Atilius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    The issue is that the quote (a fragment) indicates the principes are wielding their spears two-handed, so carrying javelins would be a problem:

    Those who fight in close combat with cavalry spears grasped by the middle with both hands and who usually save the day in battles are called principes by the Romans.

    - Dionysios of Halikarnassos, 20.11

    It's difficult to know what to make of this passage, and there are indications that it's a late insertion.
    The truth is the most valuable thing we have. Let us economize it. - Mark Twain



  7. #7
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    It would also preclude the use of shields which makes even less sense, and basically comes across as having been pulled wholesale out of someone's derriere. Or a case of Lost In Translation and what have you.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  8. #8
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    Addendum: given that the javelins would in any case be thrown before contact, until which even a pike can be and usually is carried one-handed...
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  9. #9
    Member Member Dutchhoplite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    Yes, it looks like a mess but i still would like to use them i a transitionory way...

    And i don't think this change is per se ahistorical. It's not like i want to give them uzi's ;)
    Last edited by Dutchhoplite; 12-31-2009 at 09:33.
    I love the smell of bronze in the morning!

    Campaigns completed: Vanilla Seleucid, EB 1.2. Carthaginian, RSII Pergamon

  10. #10
    Member Member Dutchhoplite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    If i change this:

    Code:
    ;248
    type             roman infantry principes early
    dictionary       roman_infantry_principes_early      ; Principes
    category         infantry
    class            heavy
    voice_type       General_1
    soldier          roman_infantry_principesearly, 40, 0, 1.15
    officer          ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
    officer          ebofficer_roman_early_standard
    mount_effect     chariot +2
    attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, hardy
    formation        1, 2, 2, 3, 4, square
    stat_health      1, 1
    stat_pri         4, 4, pilum, 35, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
    stat_pri_attr    prec, thrown, ap
    stat_sec         14, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
    stat_sec_attr    light_spear
    stat_pri_armour  9, 9, 4, flesh
    stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
    stat_heat        2
    stat_ground      0, 0, -1, -3
    stat_mental      13, disciplined, highly_trained
    stat_charge_dist 30
    stat_fire_delay  0
    stat_food        60, 300
    stat_cost        1, 1046, 262, 50, 80, 1046
    ownership        seleucid, slave

    Into this:

    Code:
    ;248
    type             roman infantry principes early
    dictionary       roman_infantry_principes_early      ; Principes
    category         infantry
    class            heavy
    voice_type       General_1
    soldier          roman_infantry_principesearly, 40, 0, 1.15
    officer          ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
    officer          ebofficer_roman_early_standard
    mount_effect     chariot +2
    attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, hardy
    formation        1, 2, 2, 3, 4, square
    stat_health      1, 1
    stat_pri         14, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
    stat_pri_attr    light_spear
    stat_sec         14, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
    stat_sec_attr    light_spear
    stat_pri_armour  9, 9, 4, flesh
    stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
    stat_heat        2
    stat_ground      0, 0, -1, -3
    stat_mental      13, disciplined, highly_trained
    stat_charge_dist 30
    stat_fire_delay  0
    stat_food        60, 300
    stat_cost        1, 1046, 262, 50, 80, 1046
    ownership        seleucid, slave
    Would that do the trick??
    I love the smell of bronze in the morning!

    Campaigns completed: Vanilla Seleucid, EB 1.2. Carthaginian, RSII Pergamon

  11. #11
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    Not really, it'll make them stab the other guy with their pila. Did you try reducing the primary-weapon attack values to 0 ? I was hoping that'd sidestep the throwing-spear being the "primary" weapon on the model...
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  12. #12
    Member Member Dutchhoplite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    Code:
    stat_pri         0, 4, pilum, 35, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
    stat_pri_attr    prec, thrown, ap
    Like this?
    Last edited by Dutchhoplite; 12-31-2009 at 20:37.
    I love the smell of bronze in the morning!

    Campaigns completed: Vanilla Seleucid, EB 1.2. Carthaginian, RSII Pergamon

  13. #13
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    Pretty much, though I'd make it like this:
    Code:
    stat_pri         0, 0, pilum, 35, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
    stat_pri_attr    prec, thrown, ap
    Mainly on principle though.
    Last edited by Watchman; 12-31-2009 at 20:45.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  14. #14
    Member Member Dutchhoplite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Changing Camillan Principes

    Thanks, i'll try that ;)
    I love the smell of bronze in the morning!

    Campaigns completed: Vanilla Seleucid, EB 1.2. Carthaginian, RSII Pergamon

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