Lorica Segmentata

[Ludens]

people should read FAQ's for goodness sake, but hey, how many actually do?

He did read the FAQ, but he wanted to suggest a way in which the LS could be included. However, we don't know with what units LS was associated in its early days. Giving it to the "elite" first cohort and praetorian units may not represent the truth. At least one EB member believes that LS was not an improvement, but a cheaper replacement for LH, so you would not expect it on elite units. (And yes, I know this is disputed. We've had discussions on this before: do a forum search if you wish to know more.)

Anyway, the Praetorian cohort was a front-line unit in its early days. I know they campaigned with Germanicus the Younger against Arminius.

[Skullheadhq]

Why not include this as an armorer upgrade, you can change the armor at the armorers right? (dot really know for sure) and then you could make a `late armor` armorer that can only be build from year X and later or something.

[Smeel]

The lorica segmentata were included in a submod in EB1, this will probably be the case for EB2 as well.

And wow, a somewhat civil LS thread. Please don't slaughter newcomers, please.

[Cute Wolf]

Why not include this as an armorer upgrade, you can change the armor at the armorers right? (dot really know for sure) and then you could make a `late armor` armorer that can only be build from year X and later or something.

The OP must read your AAR skull, LS are known to causing nation wide riot in early days

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=124946

And more seriously now, getting LS as an armour upgrade is allready told in long time ago by the EB team, with NO LS as answer...

[Julius Augustus]

I have an idea! You know how in M2TW soldiers within a unit can have different skins? You could have like 6 skins on a cohors preatoriani unit and have one of them be of lorica segmentata. There would be few enough men wearing it to make it historical. You could satiate the lust for LS and still be at least semi accurate.

[Horatius Flaccus]

the team has decided not to include any Lorica Segmentata

So I guess this discussion is pointless.

[Skullheadhq]

semi accurate

... (words are not needed)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Europa Barbarorum is semi accurate(No offence EB-team).

There is only so much historically accurate stuff you can represent in a modification of computer game!

About the LS.. If you want it then make a minimod. There are M2TW mods that have roman units with LS so I suggest you to play them..

[Macilrille]

Europa Barbarorum is semi accurate(No offence EB-team).

There is only so much historically accurate stuff you can represent in a modification of computer game!

About the LS.. If you want it then make a minimod. There are M2TW mods that have roman units with LS so I suggest you to play them..

EB is the best representation there is, but by necessity in order to actually have a playable game, there will be things in it that we do not know was the way EB depicts them. Mostly because we know very little about a lot of things and nothing of many. So the EB team has to compromise in order to get a product/game.

Thus, do not believe that EB is an accurate depiction of The Truth of Antiquity- that is a mistake too many here makes- EB is a damn good and well-researched product, but it is still a game. If you want to get a greater appreciation of both what the game depicts and the momentous task in front of the Team, read their sources.

I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance

, or

Εν οίδα ότι ουδέν οίδα

, Socrates' words still apply to our existance.

[A Very Super Market]

I have an idea! You know how in M2TW soldiers within a unit can have different skins? You could have like 6 skins on a cohors preatoriani unit and have one of them be of lorica segmentata. There would be few enough men wearing it to make it historical. You could satiate the lust for LS and still be at least semi accurate.

I would think the legionaries would be more standardised than that. In any case, the EB team doesn't exactly negotiate on something like this, and this probably isn't the first time this has been proposed

[Watchman]

I would think the legionaries would be more standardised than that.

Why ? They got issued what happened to be available, and no doubt further "customised" their kit within reasonable limits according to personal taste and preference. This happens even in modern armies, which actually have genuinely standardised mass-produced kits on a degree no pre-industrial military could really even understand.

[Macilrille]

Because that, just as the LS, is the public perception of it; Roman legionares were 300.000 identical clones in identical uniforms and equipment.

Watchman is right though, just look at pictures from Irak and Afghanistan. How much privately purchased or enemy equipment are our boys toting? Quite a lot- many Danes purchase boots privately for example, the AK seems to be pretty popular as well. Probably because of its reliability even when full of grit, sand, dust, etc- even though it cannot hit a barn, from inside the barn...

That is OT, but if you have a look at any soldier in any war, especially after a prolonged period of fighting when logistics starts to break down to some extent (yes it happens even for US, the masters of logistics) and issued equipment starts to wear out (that especially happens to our sophisticated Western equipment), you will notice lots of subtle changes in gear. The fighting man cares not a rat's arse for regulations, he cares for survival.

[Ibrahim]

He did read the FAQ, but he wanted to suggest a way in which the LS could be included. However, we don't know with what units LS was associated in its early days. Giving it to the "elite" first cohort and praetorian units may not represent the truth. At least one EB member believes that LS was not an improvement, but a cheaper replacement for LH, so you would not expect it on elite units. (And yes, I know this is disputed. We've had discussions on this before: do a forum search if you wish to know more.)

Anyway, the Praetorian cohort was a front-line unit in its early days. I know they campaigned with Germanicus the Younger against Arminius.

my bad.

well, either way, its more prudent not to have LS if that is the case.

[tarem]

i know about the early apearence of LS, but what about the reasons for it's manufacture? i mean, why were the romans incited to experiment with it? in example, the shape of the scutum varied and changed with the enemies faced, from more oval and curved edges when the romans fought sword equiped infantry, to more square shaped when they engaged missile weapons and spears. but what is the story behind the LS?

[antisocialmunky]

No one knows. Everyone has a different interpretation.

[tarem]

that is problemtic. had we known this we could rationalise it's earlier then in history developement, just as the Marian reforms can be rationalised by sume rushed acheavements (in game). or the way we can explain the reformed phalanx with the growing Roman thrat for the makedones.

[antisocialmunky]

And LS is rationalized in EB as a prototype armor not in common use during the EB time period that was rapidly phased out during the near collapse of the empire in the 3rd century because it was overly complicated.

Atleast that's what I've gotten out of the numerous threads that have come before.

[Cyclops]

No one knows. Everyone has a different interpretation.

Yep, like military hardware nowadays, there were prolly contractors, vendors, lobbyists and fanboys raving on about their products, so they may not even have had a consensus back then.

I have to admit harmata always looks a bit gritty (in a cool way, but still shabby), whereas segmentata is marvellous looking which might have helped promote it whether it was a better product or not.

[tarem]

if i was roman logistics officer i'd say the pros involve superior blunt protection, ease of manufacture (compared to hamata) and ease of transport, however maintenace in humid environement must have been hell :P

[bobbin]

Its also supposed to be very uncomfortable to wear for extended periods of time.

[Watchman]

if i was roman logistics officer i'd say the pros involve superior blunt protection, ease of manufacture (compared to hamata) and ease of transport, however maintenace in humid environement must have been hell :P

Mail doesn't feature particularly less iron, you know... but I've heard the copper-alloy hinges, buckles and whatnot, aside from being rather fragile, overcomplicated and a real pain in the butt in general, also chemically reacted with the iron in some undesirable fashion.

Its also supposed to be very uncomfortable to wear for extended periods of time.

Isn't all metal body armour, though ?