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Thread: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

  1. #31

    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    I think Armenians are predominantly Christians, with some Muslims around. Christianity in Armenia is probably even older than the Roman Catholic Church.
    Armenians aren't Muslims. Armenia is the first Christian nation. Officaly adopted Christianity in 301 AD

    Anyways the Armenian units in Eb arent even speaking Armenian. I had started making translations for an Armenian voicemod, but I think it got held off, and most likely would be used for EB2.
    Last edited by artavazd; 01-06-2010 at 10:59.

  2. #32

    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Allah =/= the Islamic god
    Allah=God in Arabic

    If a christian, a Hindu or even a pagan was speaking Arabic, they'd be saying "Allah"
    Last edited by Olaf The Great; 01-06-2010 at 11:00.
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  3. #33
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Correct, although interestingly "allah" comes from the name of a pre-islamic arabian creator god.


  4. #34
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    I believe it stems from "Alat", who was a Moon God.

    Armenians aren't Muslims. Armenia is the first Christian nation. Officaly adopted Christianity in 301 AD
    I think there must be some Armenian Muslims around. Or at the very least, there are Muslims living in Armenia.
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  5. #35
    EB on ALX player Member ziegenpeter's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Oh come on guys, it's very obvious right from the beginning, that Andranik wasn't sincerely saying that any unit calls "god is great" in arabic. I think that was a joke. I laughed.

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  6. #36
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Wasn't Allat supposed to be a daughter of Allah?, i'm not too knowlegable about this subject so your probably right.


  7. #37
    Member Member Andranik's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    i think This topic has been answered and can be closed (sry if that was not gramatic correct i cant not so good englisch ...)

  8. #38

    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    I believe it stems from "Alat", who was a Moon God.



    I think there must be some Armenian Muslims around. Or at the very least, there are Muslims living in Armenia.
    Why do you assume there are? Armenians arent Muslims, and the only Muslims in Armenia are Iranian foriegn exchange students who come to study then leave for Iran.

    Christianity has acted as a shield against Armenians being assimilated into the larger Muslim populations surrounded her. The only reason there are Armenians today, is because of Christiantiy.
    Last edited by artavazd; 01-07-2010 at 01:45.

  9. #39
    Slixpoitation Member A Very Super Market's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    No modern nation is totally ethnically homogenous. It's absurd to think otherwise.
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  10. #40
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    While its true that there are very few true nation states in existence(mostly indigenous people on islands in the South Pacific), there are still a few as well as many that are nearly homogenous states such as Japan and Korea and others on this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_...te_in_practice
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  11. #41

    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by A Very Super Market View Post
    No modern nation is totally ethnically homogenous. It's absurd to think otherwise.
    Even Iceland isn't, there's french and turkish(inorite) families that have been there for hundreds of years.
    Last edited by Olaf The Great; 01-07-2010 at 03:48.
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  12. #42
    Slixpoitation Member A Very Super Market's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky View Post
    While its true that there are very few true nation states in existence(mostly indigenous people on islands in the South Pacific), there are still a few as well as many that are nearly homogenous states such as Japan and Korea and others on this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_...te_in_practice

    artavazd gave us an absolute, and I answered.
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  13. #43

    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by A Very Super Market View Post
    artavazd gave us an absolute, and I answered.


    I didnt say Armenia is 100% homogeniouse. I said that there are no Muslim Armenians. Armenia is like 98% Armenian, with about 1% Yezidis (Zoroastrian Kurds) about 0.5% Russians, and the rest are small populations of Greeks and Assyrians. With each group making up about 0.2-0.3% of the population.

  14. #44
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    What, are Armenians genetically incapable of converting to Islam or something ?
    I smell BS.
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  15. #45
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbin View Post
    Wasn't Allat supposed to be a daughter of Allah?, i'm not too knowlegable about this subject so your probably right.
    Allah is not one word, but actually two. It means the one (sole) god. Though his exact function of a god probably varied from people tot people and time and region. He was considered as the creator and the god of rain by some. Allat was another god, godess actually, which was often identified with the stars (or moon) and was considered one of the three daughters of allah in makkah. She was also indentified with Athena during the hellenic era, and hence even depicted like her. She was especially popular in the north western regions of Arabia (Hawran & Edom area). Even at places where Allah wasn't the main deity, one of the more important ones, or not worshipped at all. Allah probably was the most popular and important in settlements on the western incense routes (Iatrib, makkah). At some places all three daughters of allah held an important place in the pantheon, yet allah himself almost seems or is absent. Great examples of this are Petra, Hegra, Palmyra and Hatra.

    There's still a lot of research to be done on Pre-islamic religion, due to limited amount of sources and variations from region tot region and changes in time. However one can conclude that at his time Allat was a very popular godess which also held much importance in the north arabian pantheon, while allah seems to have been much more regional.

  16. #46
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    I didnt say Armenia is 100% homogeniouse. I said that there are no Muslim Armenians. Armenia is like 98% Armenian, with about 1% Yezidis (Zoroastrian Kurds) about 0.5% Russians, and the rest are small populations of Greeks and Assyrians. With each group making up about 0.2-0.3% of the population.
    ..there are Armenians outside Armenia, you know that?
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  17. #47
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchman View Post
    What, are Armenians genetically incapable of converting to Islam or something ?
    I smell BS.
    1) They had endure genocide by their muslim Turkish overlords early in 20th century
    2) They had long history of war and hatred with their Azerbajian neighbours
    3) They are proud to be the first official Christian kingdom on earth

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  18. #48
    urk! Member bobbin's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Ethnicity is not the sole determinant of faith, while it is safe to say that the overwhelming majority of Armenian people are Christian you can't say that there are absolutely no Armenian muslims at all (a quick google search comes up with the Hemshin, a armenian people living in turkey who are partly muslim).


  19. #49

    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    ..there are Armenians outside Armenia, you know that?

    With all due respect, I as an Armenian know very well that there are Armenians outside of Armenia. Infact more Armenians live outside of Armenia than they do in Armenia. Main reason for this, is because of the Genocide. Armenians living in Lebanon, and Iran have kept their culture, language, and religion (Christianity) alive for all of these years. Infact those Armenians outside of Armenia tend to be more nationalistic (Christianity being a big part of Armenian nationalism) than do Armenians living in Armenia.

  20. #50

    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbin View Post
    Ethnicity is not the sole determinant of faith, while it is safe to say that the overwhelming majority of Armenian people are Christian you can't say that there are absolutely no Armenian muslims at all (a quick google search comes up with the Hemshin, a armenian people living in turkey who are partly muslim).


    Yes, you are correct about the Hemshins. Their name comes from a nobleman named Hamas who in the middle ages moved from Kars close to the Armenian capital of Ani to what is today Trabizond. He established a community there and it was called Hamashen "shen" or "shinel" meaning to build or establish in Armenian. Therefore the Armenians of the area became known as Hamashen or Hemshin. However they are on the outmost fringes of the Armenian community. An interesting fact is, during the early 20th century when the Genocide was taking place, those Hemshins That escaped from Trabizond and made it to Western Georgia (Colchis) kept, or restablished the Christian faith. The ones who couldnt escape adopted Islam in order to not get killed.

  21. #51
    Member Member Andranik's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    artavazd is right

    there are more armenians outside then inside but the armenians are not a nation that chance his culture hostory and religion

    artavazd live probably in usa and he dont know one armenian there is muslim or other religion

    i am a Armenian too !

    and i have never hear that in germany(where i live) a armenian is muslim or other


    probably the persons they dont know the proud of armenians havet no idea what is proudness for his land historie origin and so on


    armenians are very familiar and if the parents are christians than the kids will christians too

  22. #52
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Now while I don't mind threads moving a bit OT to some other interesting aspects of history or EB itself. But let's not talk about genocides, religion, ... that's backroom material.

  23. #53

    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Moros View Post
    Now while I don't mind threads moving a bit OT to some other interesting aspects of history or EB itself. But let's not talk about genocides, religion, ... that's backroom material.
    Im just answering people's curiouse questions. Hopefuly its been answered, and if need be we can always talk through private texts.

  24. #54
    master of the wierd people Member Ibrahim's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    I believe it stems from "Alat", who was a Moon God.



    I think there must be some Armenian Muslims around. Or at the very least, there are Muslims living in Armenia.
    well, Allah is a contraction. the original name was al-ilah, which simply means "the God". as Bobbin said, he (well, technically "it") was the creator God, and the ocasional rain maker, equivalent to El or Yahweh. he was said to have a consort, al-ilahat, which as you might guess, means "the Godess"; her name was contracted to allat. pre-islamic poetry interchangeably use "al-ilah" and "allah", with allah becoming more common in the last quarter of the 6th century. this is part of the reason the word for God in the qur'an is Allah. Arab Christians and Jews then and now actually used/use "Allah" as well.

    the first mention of either is in fact of al-ilahat (allat), in Herodotos' account of the arabians, where, mangling the arabic, he refers to "alilat". (this is in fact in the bibliography/links of the EB website).

    now that that is out of the way, lets listen to Moros; best not start on the religious Q.
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  25. #55
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim View Post
    well, Allah is a contraction. the original name was al-ilah, which simply means "the God". as Bobbin said, he (well, technically "it") was the creator God, and the ocasional rain maker, equivalent to El or Yahweh. he was said to have a consort, al-ilahat, which as you might guess, means "the Godess"; her name was contracted to allat. pre-islamic poetry interchangeably use "al-ilah" and "allah", with allah becoming more common in the last quarter of the 6th century. this is part of the reason the word for God in the qur'an is Allah. Arab Christians and Jews then and now actually used/use "Allah" as well.

    the first mention of either is in fact of al-ilahat (allat), in Herodotos' account of the arabians, where, mangling the arabic, he refers to "alilat". (this is in fact in the bibliography/links of the EB website).

    now that that is out of the way, lets listen to Moros; best not start on the religious Q.
    Do note that al'uzza and allat were often intermingled. And while Al'uzza was more popular in the early periods (Dedan) it would later become Allat that would be used the most. During our EB period it would be mainly Dushara (edomite god, adopted by north arabians) who represented the sun, Al Quam god of the night and al'uzza godess of the stars and power. By the end of our timeframe it would be allat that replaced al'uzza as being the godess of the stars and the arabian counterpart of Athena.

    Quote Originally Posted by artavazd View Post
    Im just answering people's curiouse questions. Hopefuly its been answered, and if need be we can always talk through private texts.
    I know, but it's just a sensitive topic.
    Last edited by Ludens; 01-13-2010 at 11:19. Reason: merged posts

  26. #56

    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Hello my dearest of friends. Please, let's put aside the ignorance and the misunderstandings. Now will somebody answer the OP's question cause frankly I would've started a thread on this if he hadn't. I know I heard something similar to what he did. Now will somebody who has CONCRETE knowledge on the d*** issue answer the question? It's pretty useless responding if you don't know the answer, don't you think so? Jeezzzz.


    So the soldiers don't really say Allah Akbar. Big friggin deal. Does anyone here know what they really say?
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  27. #57

    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by vartan View Post
    Hello my dearest of friends. Please, let's put aside the ignorance and the misunderstandings. Now will somebody answer the OP's question cause frankly I would've started a thread on this if he hadn't. I know I heard something similar to what he did. Now will somebody who has CONCRETE knowledge on the d*** issue answer the question? It's pretty useless responding if you don't know the answer, don't you think so? Jeezzzz.


    So the soldiers don't really say Allah Akbar. Big friggin deal. Does anyone here know what they really say?
    lol, welcome to the academic mind set. Why answer a question directly when you can spend hours talking about some "related" subject instead . It might take a while on these boards for you to get a straight answer

  28. #58
    Near East TW Mod Leader Member Cute Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Yeah, I know that it all hapened as misheard response voices... and maybe some poor quality speaker

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  29. #59

    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by vartan View Post
    Hello my dearest of friends. Please, let's put aside the ignorance and the misunderstandings. Now will somebody answer the OP's question cause frankly I would've started a thread on this if he hadn't. I know I heard something similar to what he did. Now will somebody who has CONCRETE knowledge on the d*** issue answer the question? It's pretty useless responding if you don't know the answer, don't you think so? Jeezzzz.


    So the soldiers don't really say Allah Akbar. Big friggin deal. Does anyone here know what they really say?
    bro the Armenian units are not speaking Armenian. Their speaking Farsi. In Eb2 most likey they will be speaking Armenian. So in conclusion a Farsi speaker must answer the question.

  30. #60
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: a question about Hayasdan soldiers

    Their speaking Farsi.
    Actually, they are speaking Old Persian, which is related to Farsi, but not quite the same.
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