The United Kingdom Elections 2010

[Idaho]

WTF! what planet do you live on?

I am a Tory/UKIP type person, and I have a Polish girlfriend, and there is zero incompatibility between the two.

It might be convenient for you to conflate the Tory's and UKIP with the BNP, as it makes them easier to be branded as guilty by association, but it is fundamentally dishonest.

The UKIP position is that they don't want to be european.
The BNP position is that they don't want have any europeans (or anyone else).

They may well be different messages. But they come from the same place. BNP is the working class expression of it, and UKIP is the middle class expression of it.

The Tory position on immigration isn't exactly ideological, it is merely a pragmatic recognition that the less well off consider it to be a problem, and it is their job to represent the view of the electorate. If you don't get that then you will never understand why labours votes among the working class are about to drop off a cliff at this election.

I as a right-wing individual don't personally give a damn about immigration, but I see social tension rising in other parts of the country and realise something should be done about that, unlike the labour position that immigration was an ideological tool to transform via social engineering the very fabric of the country.

I think both Labour and Conservative were trying to be pragmatic on immigration. Both of them followed the same de facto basic trend. The difference is that on paper the had to pander to different power bases.

[Beskar]

Lib-dem/Tory coalition won't work - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...tory-coalition
Liberal led, Labour coalition? - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...inister-hutton


I have to admit, I could easily settle for Nick Clegg becoming the next Prime Minister in a Lib-Labour coalition. It would be a very good move to make. Especially as it would give the Labour-left some actual power instead of the Labour-Right (New Labour Blairites)

[Furunculus]

They may well be different messages. But they come from the same place. BNP is the working class expression of it, and UKIP is the middle class expression of it.

absolute twaddle, explain how a desire to be the arbiter of your own identity is in any way similar to a dislike of having foriegners live in your area/country?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Tory/UKIP lot claim to be against immigration - but it's all balls. The UKIP's money backer runs a big shop near here. He employs Polish staff because they work cheaper

They love immigration - they just want the immigrants to quietly disappear after they have cleaned the toilets and swept the streets.

dossn't make them bigots, which the BNP are.

Also, Tories want to pray the gay away.

Some people need to exit the dark ages.

Some things to consider:

1. New Frontiers is a non-conformist Evangelical (non-American) Church; Tories are usually Established Church, Labour are Catholic, and the Lib-Dems are non conformists (and now Atheists).

2. Only the Guardian has said something nasty about her; even the homosexuals interviewed say nice things about her.

3. It's an opinion that was barely out of fashion when she was a child, so it's not "dark ages".

4. A funny opinion about homosexuality doesn't disqualify you from wider social work, nor does it make you wrong about everything.

absolute twaddle, explain how a desire to be the arbiter of your own identity is in any way similar to a dislike of having foriegners live in your area/country?

Quite.

[Idaho]

dossn't make them bigots, which the BNP are.

I don't think they are bigots. I think they are generally doddering fools who haven't got a scooby about real politics.

Tories are usually Established Church, Labour are Catholic, and the Lib-Dems are non conformists (and now Atheists).

Eh? The Labour party originated out of the dissenter/methodist/baptist branch of christianity. No idea where you got the idea they were catholics.

[Beskar]

Eh? The Labour party originated out of the dissenter/methodist/baptist branch of christianity. No idea where you got the idea they were catholics.

Used to be different. Labour originated out of socialism and trade-unionism, typically non-religious. Though there was much methodist/etc support.

The Whigs (later Liberals) were for Catholic emancipation.

The Tories come from the more royalist branches, the former cavaliers, the supporters of King Charles during the Civil war, however, the more modern conservatives branched out from the Whig party after the reign of Pitt the Younger. The most amusingly, the most worthwhile thing the Conservatives did was unintentionally expand the vote to all house owners, which gave more power to the working and middle classes in the 1867 second reform act.

[Furunculus]

The most amusing thing the Conservatives did was unintentionally expand the vote to all house owners, which gave more power to the working and middle classes in the 1867 second reform act.

surely you mean "worthwhile"..........?

[Beskar]

surely you mean "worthwhile"..........?

I would said "worthwhile", but they did it unintentionally, which is why i said "amusing" as they did something worthwhile by unintented consequence. But you are correct, I should have used a different word, or even "amusingly worthwhile"

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Used to be different. Labour originated out of socialism and trade-unionism, typically non-religious. Though there was much methodist/etc support.

The Whigs (later Liberals) were for Catholic emancipation.

The Tories come from the more royalist branches, the former cavaliers, the supporters of King Charles during the Civil war, however, the more modern conservatives branched out from the Whig party after the reign of Pitt the Younger. The most amusingly, the most worthwhile thing the Conservatives did was unintentionally expand the vote to all house owners, which gave more power to the working and middle classes in the 1867 second reform act.

Disraeli deliberately expanded the franchise, something Palmaston refused to do. Disraeli persuaded the Tories that the new voters would be Tory, but whether he believed that or not remains an unanswered question.

Regarding religion, I was talking more about current trends, Labour has the highest number of Catholics, especially among Blairites.