There is something rotten in Australia

[CountArach]

OT: Australia is a wierd one, whether it has something to do with the "convict colony" thing as a common history, or what, I don't know. Certainly there does seem to be a strong racist current in Australian culture.

I'd say it has more to do with the fact that all major parties in Australian politics up until the 1970s supported the White Australia Policy. In varying shades since then no Australian Party has fully supported broad immigration policies, and have instead decided to marginalise groups for electoral gain by creating a sense of Australia being under siege from immigrants, which is a claim that has no basis in reality. Thus those in power are creating a societal 'other' that they can easily blame for problems. Further, segments of the media push this anti-immigration line, despite the fact that the statistics tell a different tale.

So yeah, I blame those with power and those with the power to stop those in power. A mythologised history, as you said, does undoubtedly play into the public consciousness, but that has been shaped very carefully by governments over various periods. Every government has had its own vision of our shared history and will glorify certain time-periods and aspects.

[Fragony]

On reflection, it was a badly worded comment and I apologise unreservedly.

I meant no offense.

no probs

[aimlesswanderer]

I'd say it has more to do with the fact that all major parties in Australian politics up until the 1970s supported the White Australia Policy. In varying shades since then no Australian Party has fully supported broad immigration policies, and have instead decided to marginalise groups for electoral gain by creating a sense of Australia being under siege from immigrants, which is a claim that has no basis in reality. Thus those in power are creating a societal 'other' that they can easily blame for problems. Further, segments of the media push this anti-immigration line, despite the fact that the statistics tell a different tale.

So yeah, I blame those with power and those with the power to stop those in power. A mythologised history, as you said, does undoubtedly play into the public consciousness, but that has been shaped very carefully by governments over various periods. Every government has had its own vision of our shared history and will glorify certain time-periods and aspects.

I'd agree that the good ol White Australia Policy still lingers in the hearts and minds of some (though my grandparents got through somehow!), and that feelings towards migrants have been manipulated and inflamed by various governments for their own end. I'd say that the Howard government (the previous, conservative govt) was (despite protestations to the contrary by them and fellow conservatives) quite egregious in this area, thanks to the above mentioned Tampa and Children Deliberately Thrown Overboard (but not actually as it turns out, but not the politicians fault of course, and look, they just happened to be Muslim! Whaddaya know, just before an election and soon after the Sept 11 attacks).

Also, the Pauline Hanson circus, when the PM declined to call her a stupid bigot, and then proceeded to modify and steal her policies, and some more moderate rhetoric. Whatever his faults, at least Peter Costello was loud in his denunciations of her.

And there was the whole #*@$ up of the Mohamed Haneef saga, and the stupid government response, based on fear, paranoia, and a need to appear "tough" on terrorism, when the doctor was completely innocent, but was deported anyway. Also just months out from an election.

And then there was the OMG, Sudanese migrants are criminals saga, despite good ol Kevin Andrews (immigration minister to boot) not having any of that pesky evidence and statistics stuff to back it up. Whaddaya know, and election was in the offing then too - is there a pattern here?

However, despite the above incidents, Australia is generally a very welcoming country for migrants. After all, about 25% of the population was born overseas, and at least 7% of the population is 'Asian' (inc me). Thankfully, I'd say the change of government has generally improved the situation, with less fear mongering and inflammatory rhetoric. As with any country there are dodgy areas and people, but avoid those few and you should be fine.

[pevergreen]

Its a bad issue.

Would I welcome a return to the White Australia Policy, or something like it?

Yes.

Do I know why? No.

I have no problem with people of other ethnicities. Beefy is one of my best friends.

Drive through the main street of Moorooka (suburb in which i work, >90% population african immigration) and you can see why many people are not fans of immigrants. But then again, the tales that go around about people in ipswich (40-50km outside of CBD) and you wonder why we keep those australians.

[CountArach]

However, despite the above incidents, Australia is generally a very welcoming country for migrants. After all, about 25% of the population was born overseas, and at least 7% of the population is 'Asian' (inc me). Thankfully, I'd say the change of government has generally improved the situation, with less fear mongering and inflammatory rhetoric. As with any country there are dodgy areas and people, but avoid those few and you should be fine.

Yeah, but we still have detention centres, even if they aren't as bad as Howard's. The continuation of all the racist aspects of the Northern Territory Intervention with the patronising rhetoric that goes along with that doesn't help either.

The effect Pauline Hanson (for non-Australians, think of something like the British National Party, but rolled into one woman...) was something that I had forgotten to mention as well. The fact that openly racist commentary has been allowed into our national discourse at some point or another means that people are more likely to get away with racism, simply because our politicians can as well.

[pevergreen]

Most people knew she was a joke though.

The Chaser on Pauline.

[Megas Methuselah]

Its a bad issue.

Would I welcome a return to the White Australia Policy, or something like it?

Yes.

Do I know why? No.

I have no problem with people of other ethnicities. Beefy is one of my best friends.

Drive through the main street of Moorooka (suburb in which i work, >90% population african immigration) and you can see why many people are not fans of immigrants. But then again, the tales that go around about people in ipswich (40-50km outside of CBD) and you wonder why we keep those australians.

You're a descendant of European criminals; if you don't like immigration, then go back to Europe, you hypocrite.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

You're a descendant of European criminals; if you don't like immigration, then go back to Europe, you hypocrite.

You know, I've been thinking, we should pack the entire human population into Tanzania. Or maybe Iraq.

[Megas Methuselah]

You know, I've been thinking, we should pack the entire human population into Tanzania. Or maybe Iraq.

And then plant this one big special tree, right?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

And then plant this one big special tree, right?

I'm sure you saw my point.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm sure you saw my point.

He's probably on his way back to siberia.

[Beskar]

Apparently, everyone on the planet standing side by side can fit into Texas.

I think Strike would be big on that idea.

Admittedly, Banquo's comment made me laugh. Though, I am not sure if was the same way everyone else saw it though.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Apparently, everyone on the planet standing side by side can fit into Texas.

Any figures on what the population density would be in that case?

[Furunculus]

You're a descendant of European criminals; if you don't like immigration, then go back to Europe, you hypocrite.

how's that chip coming along, eh?

-------------------------------------------

back on topic:

to me; pevergreens comment is merely evidence of my much derided concept of a shared social and cultural history.

the greater the commonality, the less friction points exist within a group, and the easier it is to rub along together.

i'm putting words in pevergreens mouth for which i apologise; but i imagine he goes through those badly integrated disctricts and recognises the tension that has arisen from those points of friction.

.......... but of course it couldn't be that, because as everyone on this forum knows we are all exactly the same, with exactly the same expectations and desires about what society should be, with identical aims and objectives as to how we wish to participate in that society..........

[Beefy187]

btw pever, if I was to visit Australia right now, would I make it out of there alive?
How badly do they hate the Japanese for whaling?

[CountArach]

How badly do they hate the Japanese for whaling?

We know the difference between Japanese whalers and every-day Japanese citizens.

[pevergreen]

Most people wouldn't care Beefy. Plus, I'd defend you. We leave japanese tourists alone, so you'd just have to go around with a camera, like we did that day.

i'm putting words in pevergreens mouth for which i apologise; but i imagine he goes through those badly integrated disctricts and recognises the tension that has arisen from those points of friction.

Not entirely sure what you mean.

@Megas: Yeah, I don't really have an excuse. I can trace back to the first fleet on my dads side and before that, to 1770's france.

[Furunculus]

We know the difference between Japanese whalers and every-day Japanese citizens.

on the other hand, every party in japans parliament supports whaling............ and they are in theory a representative democracy............

[CountArach]

on the other hand, every party in japans parliament supports whaling............ and they are in theory a representative democracy............

Emphasis mine.

[Furunculus]

Emphasis mine.

maybe we ought to ask beefy if he's living in a dictatorship? perhaps there's something rotten in japan.............?

[Beefy187]

on the other hand, every party in japans parliament supports whaling............ and they are in theory a representative democracy............

I guess your right.
Our biggest two party who is battling for their ruling seat is practically completely the same.

@pever, CA

Thats good to hear. Reading some of the comments on Australian news got me worried.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Its a bad issue.

Would I welcome a return to the White Australia Policy, or something like it?

Yes.

Do I know why? No.

I have no problem with people of other ethnicities. Beefy is one of my best friends.

Drive through the main street of Moorooka (suburb in which i work, >90% population african immigration) and you can see why many people are not fans of immigrants. But then again, the tales that go around about people in ipswich (40-50km outside of CBD) and you wonder why we keep those australians.

We are all most comfortable with people like us, white Australians are more like each other than they are like African immigrants. Also, we want our children to look like us, and in Europe skin colour has become a major marker of identity, it used to be hair colour before that.

Don't worry about it too much, any one who claims not to be racist is lying. Just be aware it's there, in your subconcious.

You're a descendant of European criminals; if you don't like immigration, then go back to Europe, you hypocrite.

You're the desendent of genocidal Asians who so obliterated the previous inhabitants of the continent that all that remains now are their stone tools, but who's counting?

[naut]

You're the desendent of genocidal Asians who so obliterated the previous inhabitants of the continent that all that remains now are their stone tools, but who's counting?

Evolution is a racist! Evolution should be banned!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Evolution is a racist! Evolution should be banned!

Nope, sorry. http://www.primtech.net/

Bruce (I know him personally) has demonstrated that the first human inhabitants of America were probably from Southern France (related to modern Basques). This is because the earliest stone technology found in America is European, not Asian.

[naut]

Nope, sorry. http://www.primtech.net/

Bruce (I know him personally) has demonstrated that the first human inhabitants of America were probably from Southern France (related to modern Basques). This is because the earliest stone technology found in America is European, not Asian.

Ah. I thought you were talking about Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons. Regardless, interesting nonetheless.

[Subotan]

btw pever, if I was to visit Australia right now, would I make it out of there alive?
How badly do they hate the Japanese for whaling?

Wait, you're Japanese?

And whale is tasty

[Banquo's Ghost]

Bruce (I know him personally) has demonstrated that the first human inhabitants of America were probably from Southern France (related to modern Basques).

Typical. It's always the Frenchies' fault.

Mind you, if I was going to wiped out, there are worse ways to go than being sent to oblivion by French girls in modern basques. (I think I read that right...)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Ah. I thought you were talking about Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons. Regardless, interesting nonetheless.

I don't think the Neanderthals ever got to the America's.

Sadly Bruce was, virtually, hounded out of America for his discoveries; as he basically divested the Native Americans of the "Aboriginal" status.

[Beskar]

Nope, sorry. http://www.primtech.net/

Bruce (I know him personally) has demonstrated that the first human inhabitants of America were probably from Southern France (related to modern Basques). This is because the earliest stone technology found in America is European, not Asian.

I seen that as well on the History channel ages ago.

There was a Tribe in Southern France with an unique method of creating spearheads. Around 300-400 later, the same design appeared in America. Due to the climate at the time and how you can cross the altantic, they believed they followed game across the frozen sheets of the North Atlantic and settled in America.

But there is also the fact the Mongolians also went to America, crossing at Russia-Alaska, so hence why some native American population shares genes from Asian populations.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Is there something you want to say to me?

Come on, Fragony. Don't be so think-skinned. Banquo made some light-hearted banter, in reference to your many posts about Muslims.


We can't have a fun, lively debate if we are not allowed to sneak in some mischievous fun.