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Thread: What if TW ended...

  1. #1
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default What if TW ended...

    I want to ask my fellow Orgahs what would they be thinking and playing after the end of the TW franchise. I feel that after Napoleon, TW has nowhere to go since modern battles are not suited for this strategy game and the only option is reworking the existing games or going really ancient like stone battles.

    So, what do you think about the end of the TW franchise?

    And what would you do if...

    1. There was a TW competitor when TW ended

    2. There was not a TW competitor when TW ended.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Deadhead Member Owen Glyndwr's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    If there was a TW competitor I'd probably buy their games if they received good reviews. Otherwise, I'll stick with my paradox games and civilization games, thank you very much.
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    Pleasing the Fates Senior Member A Nerd's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    I'd be sad if TW ended! A competetor would definately be looked into. I was hoping they would go back and redo some old titles like shogun and rome.
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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    If I get the hankering for a TW style game, I know where to go.


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    Member Member hoom's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    There are plenty of places that TW could go that it hasn't yet.

    My fear is that they keep releasing horribly buggy versions with poor design decisions (star forts...) & sales keep dropping until they just stop with no competitors.

    It'd be not so bad if someone released a decent quality competitor series about the same time.
    But there is a good reason that nobody really has come anywhere near to making a competitor to the TW series: Its an astoundingly massive & complex undertaking.
    maybe those guys should be doing something more useful...

  6. #6
    Provost Senior Member Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    I don't think Total War will end without going back to Sengoku Jidai.

    Our yari cavalry will thunder across the plains of Yamato once again!

    Banzai!
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member Tomisama's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    There is still the American civil war (1860s), which will probably be next (American Total War).

    And China's three kingdoms civil war (220 to 265), that is rich in possibilities.


    But my personal wish would be that they would go back to the Sengoku Jidai
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    LOL no where to go that is a joke. There are hundreds of possibilities of a next total war with out doing a single repeat. You need to brush up on your history. There are dozens of time periods in Asia alone. Same with Africa and the Americas. Europe/mideast has so many possibilities we haven't even done 1/100th of the possible time periods/regions that would be interesting.

    My only prayer for the Total War series is that the next time period is FAR FAR FAR away from gunpowder as I think it is realatively boring. Hopefully they get away from Europe after NTW. Asia would be so interesting in almost any time period as you have vastely different culters/armies/weapons/technology/fighting styles/terrain type/government types/etc. With an Asia Total War you could have the Indians/Chinese/Japanese/Koreans/Mongols/Persians/Northern Russian tribes/ and all sorts of nations.


  9. #9
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelson View Post
    I don't think Total War will end without going back to Sengoku Jidai.

    Our yari cavalry will thunder across the plains of Yamato once again!

    Banzai!
    Man, I wish they would go back and redo with the new improved graphics. But there is still a part of me that likes Shogun the way it is..
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  10. #10

    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    I really wish they'd go back and re-do MTW so it would work on the newer Graphics cards. If they did that..

  11. #11
    Member Member Den of Earth's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    They could do American Civil War, the Prussian-Danish/Austrian/Franco (Bismarck) Wars, and maybe a few Victorian Wars to name but a few. I'd like to see them do all of these in a Kingdoms style release. If CA is going to go strictly with an objective driven scenario release(s) then they'll lose what I thought seperated their work from the other guys. The ability to fight wars on a grand scale...total war. And they'll probably lose me.

  12. #12
    Member Megas Methuselah's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    There are too many possibilities to consider. It's my personal wetdream to see an Ancient: Total War that spans the world, including Europe, Africa, Asia, the Americas. Obviously, you probably won't be able to traverse from one great theatre to another so easily, if at all... but it would still be amazing to witness the great civilizations each of those continents boasted in one game.

    Too bad it's just a dream.
    Last edited by Megas Methuselah; 01-13-2010 at 07:51.

  13. #13
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgolas View Post
    LOL no where to go that is a joke. There are hundreds of possibilities of a next total war with out doing a single repeat. You need to brush up on your history. There are dozens of time periods in Asia alone. Same with Africa and the Americas. Europe/mideast has so many possibilities we haven't even done 1/100th of the possible time periods/regions that would be interesting.

    My only prayer for the Total War series is that the next time period is FAR FAR FAR away from gunpowder as I think it is realatively boring. Hopefully they get away from Europe after NTW. Asia would be so interesting in almost any time period as you have vastely different culters/armies/weapons/technology/fighting styles/terrain type/government types/etc. With an Asia Total War you could have the Indians/Chinese/Japanese/Koreans/Mongols/Persians/Northern Russian tribes/ and all sorts of nations.
    My history is good enough, thank you for your kind observation.

    Dozens of time periods? Well my friend, TW has always been a "broad period game", and apart from Shogun where they managed to set the tone right, having a game spanning over 50 years unless it's something remarkable like the Sengoku Jidai period, it will not work properly due to the massive change in the strategy engine of TW games.

    I agree about the gunpowder area, but where would CA go that's something to think about...
    Thing is, they can't do this much more, considering ETW.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Senior Member Beefy187's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgolas View Post
    LOL no where to go that is a joke. There are hundreds of possibilities of a next total war with out doing a single repeat. You need to brush up on your history. There are dozens of time periods in Asia alone. Same with Africa and the Americas. Europe/mideast has so many possibilities we haven't even done 1/100th of the possible time periods/regions that would be interesting.

    My only prayer for the Total War series is that the next time period is FAR FAR FAR away from gunpowder as I think it is realatively boring. Hopefully they get away from Europe after NTW. Asia would be so interesting in almost any time period as you have vastely different culters/armies/weapons/technology/fighting styles/terrain type/government types/etc. With an Asia Total War you could have the Indians/Chinese/Japanese/Koreans/Mongols/Persians/Northern Russian tribes/ and all sorts of nations.
    But theres not many period which has lots of historical sources, dramas and huge battles like Rome, Medieval and Shogun. I think, no matter which new period they bring up, its not going to be as interesting as those time period.

    Only way I can see TW games continuing their legacy is by either redoing or by introducing some system which is completely new and amazing.


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    Member Member Den of Earth's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    I think CA has plenty of 19th century conflicts in which they could perhaps take logistics and naval support to the next level. How about gunboats(ironclads) attacking coastal forts. Sailing up navagable rivers to shell a city and then land some marines . How about Engineers. How about railroads. Blowing up bridges and then being able to rebuild them would be really cool. Cavalry could raid behind lines and tear up railroads, raid depots. I think WWI would be a far reach yet, and I'd also like to see them go back to Rome, but the Napoleonic Age is just the beginning for nations having Command Staffs, War Colleges, an army corps system and large massed batteries. I drool about the possibilities.

  16. #16
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    Quote Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah View Post
    There are too many possibilities to consider. It's my personal wetdream to see an Ancient: Total War that spans the world, including Europe, Africa, Asia, the Americas. Obviously, you probably won't be able to traverse from one great theatre to another so easily, if at all... but it would still be amazing to witness the great civilizations each of those continents boasted in one game.

    Too bad it's just a dream.
    You can traverse the conitents. IT is the fact that the Eygptians went to South America (tobacco found in mummy's corpses) and shared similar pyramid styles. The fact the French settled in America, before the Mongolians did, as well.
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  17. #17
    Desperately Seeking Tamworth Member Ethelred Unread's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    Time and investment is all that's needed for a competitor to the TW games.

    I'm sure there will be a games company out there gunning for CA.

    I think they'll already be thinking about their next time period and as others have said they might go down the "episodes" route - I guess this depends on what the format N:TW is and how well it sells.

    I think they or their competitors need to get focus on the following:-

    1. Competent BAI or CAI OR a workable Human vs Human campaign
    2. Interesting e.g. mass appeal historic era. Thinking of the size of the Chinese market, getting the marketing right (and probably sorting out piracy - no mean task) and you've got a huge revenue stream right there.
    3. If not episodic campaigns, then something to keep the player entertained during the end game, how many of you quit after getting to the "tipping point" when you know you'll win?
    4. The Mod tools question - do you want to shift more original games or have more DLC? Mod Tools kind of make any DLC you produce obsolete because modders could add it for free, so mod tools released after a year? 2 years?
    5. A *new feature* like Naval battles (hard in Medieval period) or Economics, or a Free Hat.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    Well, they can do Medieval, Rome or Shogun again. That'd satisfy us grouches and if there was a cheesy Hollywood movie set in the era CA wants to set the game in then they would have hit the jackpot.

    If they refuse to do this, then the Russian Civil War might be pretty good. Think about it. A lot of swords involved, some shooting and a huge amount of raiding. It's perfect for the E:TW system. One military advisor called the Russian Civil War "an 18th-century affair" (or something along those lines...).

    Relying on DLC's that do nothing for the campaign and screw the multi will be the end for CA.

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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    Dynasty Warriors except Total War done in anime style would be epic. Realism gets boring after a while.
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  20. #20
    Member Member Durallan's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    For all those asia fanatics I wouldn't be disheartened, mainly because they have done so much in europe I would imagine they are getting rather tired of it no doubt, RTW, M2TW, ETW, NTW.

    No doubt the next game will be something along the lines of STW 2 or somewhere in asia, which will be a nice change, although it must be something they can do with their naval engine seeing they spent so much time developing that I would imagine they would be annoyed if they couldn't use that in some way in the next game.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    ha! I can name plenty of time periods that CA hasn't gotten into. Who ever thinks an ancient Asian time period wouldn't be interesting is completly wrong as I think it is more interesting than Rome. You have MASSIVE armies and more caulters and religions than Europe. You could even do the mongol expansion where there were multiple nations that could have sprung up. The mongol wars are estimated at killing over 40 million (battle, massacre, flooding, and famine). There were also several naval battles in varios places although not as important as the gundpoweder age but still lots of potential.

    There is also ancient greece, ancient egypt, babylons, aztecs, myans, tons of african nations, etc etc etc......... Don't tell me there arn't more than Rome, Medieval,and Japan which is just a very tiny part of Asia. There is so much more to explore.


  22. #22
    Member Member hoom's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    Time and investment is all that's needed for a competitor to the TW games.
    Substantially more time & investment than is required for any other game type.
    &/or some seriously over-achieving coders.

    I think Crytek is probably the only currently known studio I could buy taking it on with any chance of success.
    Perhaps some other nobodies out of Eastern Europe? (but there are only so many of those that can happen)
    maybe those guys should be doing something more useful...

  23. #23
    Member Member Elmar Bijlsma's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    The interesting periods for CA to portray are near limitless. The amount of periods that CA can promote successfully to a mass market is frightfully small.

    Average Joe is a dumbass.
    "ZOMG Samurai, ZOMG, kniggets, ZOMG Romans, ZOMG, Kniggets again, ZOMG muskets" is about as much recognition as could be squeezed out of Average Joe for the previous titles in the series. Anything more obscure then that and marketeers would be having headaches. Personally, I think they might be a smidge lazy not to try. Build it and they will come. It's a risk, and when millions are spend risks are avoided.

    Even stuff like the Pelopponessian Wars or Thirty Years' War would be somewhat hard to pitch because not much is known about it by Average Joe. And these are among the most significant and iconic wars in human history! You can forget about a TW game about the Khmer Empire! I'm amazed they even dared tackle the age of Marlborough and Louis XIV. I doubt it would have happened if it weren't for the American War of Independence being included in the sales pitch!

    So we re-fight familiar wars at Gettysburg, St.Lo, Waterloo, Cannae or Agincourt for the umpteenth time.

  24. #24
    Deranged rock ape Member Quirinus's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    Personal wish is for CA to do Rome again, on a new engine. RTW is a good game, but there was also a lot of wasted potential...
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  25. #25
    Blue Eyed Samurai Senior Member Wishazu's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    I think that if CA are going to revisit any of their previous titles' time periods then I think Rome TW2 will be the most likely candidate. Think about it, you have various different cultures and religions and the naval engine won't be wasted.

    Besides, I think Naval battles will be more fun in this period, you won't have to worry about the wind powering your ships for a start.
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  26. #26
    Desperately Seeking Tamworth Member Ethelred Unread's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    Quote Originally Posted by hoom View Post
    Perhaps some other nobodies out of Eastern Europe? (but there are only so many of those that can happen)
    Agree completely, hence the lack of competition for CA in this area so far.

    I too think that it'll be an eastern european company or how long do we have to wait until China's game developers get up and running?
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  27. #27

    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    I really don't think TW applies to well to anytime period that doesn't cover multiple nations with the reasonable prospect of all out warfare, or at least expansionist aims.

    For instance I'm a huge American Civil War enthusiast but think it would best be served as a scenarrio ala Kingdoms. How much fun would playing one of two factions be? Plus the whole battle system doesn't seem to adept at handling engagements that lasted multiple days. Ala Gettysburg....

    July 1st - the I Corp of the ANV beats back Bufords Calvary and the 1st and 11th corp of the AOP (these forces retreat South, cross the Potomac and end their turn right next to the Rebel capital of Richmond VA.

    July 2nd - the Remaining 5 corps of the AOP attack the I Corp of the ANV (The II Corp arrives as reinforcements). Things were going well for the Rebels until an artillery battery turned 180 to fire at an errant union calvary brigade and took out Ambrose Powell Hill. The I corp of the ANV retreats accross the appalachians ending up in the area of Columbus Ohio. The II corp retreats N to Albany NY. In the meantime the 1st and 11th corp of the AOP along with Buford's calvary lay seige to Richmond VA.

    July 3rd - Longstreets III Corp of the ANV arrives to perform Pickett's charge. It's a slaughter as expected and this stack retreats south west towards Lynchburg VA. The AOP does not pursue the rebels as their calvary ranks seem to have mysteriously thinned considerably while trying to run down routing enemies.

    July 4th - Someone trys to move a gunboat up the Mississippi to blockade Vicksburg MS and the game crashes.

    Using Empire as the current example for how well CA can craft a gunpowder battle, I must say I was disappointed. In M2TW the gunpowder implementation was fun, it was a curiousity that came along late game and was a welcome change from the trebs and catapults.

    Additionally I found the battles of M2TW and RTW much more interesting, the BAI seemed to handle melee combat much better. As an orderly assault or, in the case of missile superiority, wait till they come to us strategy seemed to fit those in place at the time much better than Empire's charge calvary at artillery and make the infantry dither about aimlessly.
    Last edited by nafod; 01-15-2010 at 04:12. Reason: Added some color

  28. #28
    Revolting Peasant Member marcusbrutus's Avatar
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    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    They could keep reworking MTW forever for all I care. Bring on M3TW, M4TW, M5TW... I want better AI, you can add your own wish list.
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  29. #29

    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    The series for me has ended. Going to Steam, limited moddability, and a horrible gameplay experience with Empire did it for me. I was a loyal preorder customer prior to Empire.

  30. #30

    Default Re: What if TW ended...

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky View Post
    Dynasty Warriors except Total War done in anime style would be epic. Realism gets boring after a while.
    That depends what you mean by "anime style". The Dynasty Warriors games are in manga style, but its rather subdued and well done. If you mean saucer sized eyes, hell no.

    I've wanted to see a 3 Kingdoms: Total War for a while, I just find the period more interesting than Feudal Japan. Now, its not as popular as Japan, but I think it would still find a big audience. 18th Century Europe, afterall, is certainly not a common setting for a video game, even in the strategy genre.

    As for the original question: Total War has no competition. I'll continue to buy and play these games as long as they are made because, despite the flaws, there is nothing else like them.
    Last edited by DisruptorX; 01-23-2010 at 22:39.
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