Civil strife

[anubis88]

Hi...

This has probably been debated before (probably even by me, but my memory sucks), but i was wondering how much emphasis will there be in EBII regarding civil strife.

This is really the thing that lacks most in EB. Once you get your empire rolling, there's no stopping you. In RL, when an empire in antiquity grew very big, it's wealth did not just multiply since every one got a share and rebellions of the nobility were extreme.

And i'm not talking about Rome, since in my oppinion Rome was so succesfull precisely because they had virtualy no civil strife prior the late 2nd century BC.

Imagine if the AS or Ptolemaic empire had no civil strife in RL. I mean those 2 empires would probably still be standing.

So my qustion/proposal is:
Make loyalty a huge factor. There should really be a great king in huge empires, who could have the entire empire without rebellions. Once a weak/young/unpopular king sits to the throne, make strong "satraps, brothers, nobiles" rebell.

Wil something like this be implemented? Do people agree with me?

thanks

[Skullheadhq]

Hi...

This has probably been debated before (probably even by me, but my memory sucks), but i was wondering how much emphasis will there be in EBII regarding civil strife.

This is really the thing that lacks most in EB. Once you get your empire rolling, there's no stopping you. In RL, when an empire in antiquity grew very big, it's wealth did not just multiply since every one got a share and rebellions of the nobility were extreme.

And i'm not talking about Rome, since in my oppinion Rome was so succesfull precisely because they had virtualy no civil strife prior the late 2nd century BC.

Imagine if the AS or Ptolemaic empire had no civil strife in RL. I mean those 2 empires would probably still be standing.

So my qustion/proposal is:
Make loyalty a huge factor. There should really be a great king in huge empires, who could have the entire empire without rebellions. Once a weak/young/unpopular king sits to the throne, make strong "satraps, brothers, nobiles" rebell.

Wil something like this be implemented? Do people agree with me?

thanks

I think this can be done in Kindoms, another mod did much more with this kings strongness, but I don't think it'll be easy.

[Horatius Flaccus]

Yeah, Bellum Crucis 5 or something.

[Rahwana]

Give more severe penalty for disloyal traits, and trigger disloyalty if the current Faction leader has less command, management, or dread than his vassals.

[B-Wing]

I think the fact that generals in M2TW have a Loyalty attribute will make representing civil strife much easier. Though honestly, I've never seen a general revolt in M2TW, but I do believe it at least affects bribery costs, which is helpful. It may be possible to make rebelling generals more probable through modding, but I wouldn't know.

[Subotan]

Systems implemented like this, although many start off with noble intentions, can become inflexible. Often what happens is the country is punished for expanding, even though they might have an growing (Not necessarily large) economy, loyal armies, and efficient administration; all the things which allow large, multiethnic empires to function well. A good "civil strife" system would use these variables (And maybe some others) to calculate how loyal the populace is. Of course, the question is, can these all be implemented with the TW Engine?

Make loyalty a huge factor. There should really be a great king in huge empires, who could have the entire empire without rebellions.

Many a great man has been let down by treacherous underlings, or events outside his control.

Make loyalty a huge factor. There should really be a great king in huge empires, who could have the entire empire without rebellions. Once a weak/young/unpopular king sits to the throne, make strong "satraps, brothers, nobiles" rebell.

Basing the entire stability of the nation on the traits of one man is A. Unrealistic and B. Gives an inherent advantage to the player over the computer.

Although this is borderline irrelevant, Rhye's and Fall has implemented a superb stability system which very accurately models a system of stability for large empires. Of course, if you're not a Civ 4 player, then most of that will mean nothing to you, and it's impossible to implement perfectly into MII:TW, but it should give you a few ideas as to what should be included in a "Civil Strife" model.

[Horatius Flaccus]

I think the fact that generals in M2TW have a Loyalty attribute will make representing civil strife much easier. Though honestly, I've never seen a general revolt in M2TW, but I do believe it at least affects bribery costs, which is helpful. It may be possible to make rebelling generals more probable through modding, but I wouldn't know.

In Stainless Steel I have had my faction heir (with the royal army!) riot next to the capital. In an epic battle (in which my second heir - his brother - died) he even managed to destroy my second army. So, it does happen.

I just hope they can mod it so that they (the rebellious generals) actually lay siege to a city, something I've never seen before.