Fighting in woods

[Jikot]

I imagine tons of threads must have been made on this subject, only I've never seen one.

I absolutely ABHOR fighting in woods. They cut overhead visibility to zero, forcing you (me) to pause every two seconds, zoom all the way into the grass and start panning all over the place to get some degree of overview of the carnage.

Manoevering becomes a near-impossibility, and battle length is extended by a factor of ten. The very second I come to the dreadful conclusion that there isn't a usable open patch in the dense woods to position, I just leave and reload the game to let the AI take care of it, win or lose.

This is the major reason why I haven't gotten into any Celctic factions or the Swebi (Gaul and Germania seem like one extensive canopy of lush green forest), which just seems a shame.

Anyone know like a minimod or something which removes all dense forestation, or renders them invisible in some way? Or some tactic which magically renders forest battles more enjoyable?

I know forest combat was a reality in many an ancient warfare, but it's just no fun to play. At least not to me.

[Skullheadhq]

Only one that removes the big trees.

[Poulp']

And now, play with camera general.

That's why I only march in Germania/Gaul/Iberia/wherever there's forest when I know I have an overpowering force.

Yet I'm loving every minute of it. Talk about immersion... I can nearly feel my soldiers being nervous.

[anubis88]

I imagine tons of threads must have been made on this subject, only I've never seen one.

I absolutely ABHOR fighting in woods. They cut overhead visibility to zero, forcing you (me) to pause every two seconds, zoom all the way into the grass and start panning all over the place to get some degree of overview of the carnage.

Manoevering becomes a near-impossibility, and battle length is extended by a factor of ten. The very second I come to the dreadful conclusion that there isn't a usable open patch in the dense woods to position, I just leave and reload the game to let the AI take care of it, win or lose.

This is the major reason why I haven't gotten into any Celctic factions or the Swebi (Gaul and Germania seem like one extensive canopy of lush green forest), which just seems a shame.

Anyone know like a minimod or something which removes all dense forestation, or renders them invisible in some way? Or some tactic which magically renders forest battles more enjoyable?

I know forest combat was a reality in many an ancient warfare, but it's just no fun to play. At least not to me.

Check out the unofficial mod section. There's a mod that removes them, and replaces them with normal trees

[Vasiliyi]

One way to get rid of this is to build a fort whenever your unsure of the landscape. Building a fort automatically creates a "non-wooded" battle, but your units start in a fort. Its not a perfect solution, but its better, in my opinion than having to fight in a germanic forest.

[Jikot]

Thanks for the suggestions all, I'll be sure to try that small tree mod after the weekend!

Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

The tree-mod seems to kind of make it worse to me, as the foliage of the trees is now at a realistic height. I've been playing an extensive campaign as the Sweboz and have only fought two completely forested battles, both in the same spot, and it was in neither Gaul nor Germania. So don't be afraid to play those factions.

But I found it kind of fun - much easier to lose control of or forget about a flank, much harder to see the enemy, much more difficult to do any kind of tactical maneuvers. Though yes, I agree it is frustrating not being able to move the camera above the lowest point.

[Cute Wolf]

I usually solve this problem by carrying tons of archers and slingers toward the forest... and if I were the Sweboz themself, Medikikas is really awesome!!!

[lionhard]

the worst part is that germanic and a lot of callic warriors get combat bonus in the forests so they actually match if not overpower your men :( unless u have them too

[Cambyses]

the worst part is that germanic and a lot of callic warriors get combat bonus in the forests so they actually match if not overpower your men :( unless u have them too

The worst part? Surely its the best. Well organised armies lose many of their advantages when fighting in broken or forested terrain. That's as it should be. Romans and Greeks will - all things being equal (ie no AI involved) - usually beat Germans and Gallic troops on flat plain and lose in a forest. To avoid that you just need to move more carefully and use the general's moral bonus effectively.

Also, from memory its the Lusotannan that actually have the strongest bonus in a forest.

[Subotan]

It's totally unrealistic, forcing you to fight and direct orders from the ground level, rather than soar above the battlefield like an allseeing eagle. It totally ruins the historical experience, acting historically, for me.

[Jikot]

It's totally unrealistic, forcing you to fight and direct orders from the ground level, rather than soar above the battlefield like an allseeing eagle. It totally ruins the historical experience, acting historically, for me.

I know army commanders did not have the "soaring eagle" overview we have in the game, but don't forget that once a battle had started, they also did not have that much immediate control over any troops which were not in their close vicinity.

Typically different flanks, troop types or even small regiments would have their own commanders who ideally adhered to the orders the general issued before battle as closely as possible.
These more junior commanders would improvise and let their own tactical skills shine in the absence of (or in spite of) in-battle directions from the general or their more immediate superior.

In the game, the player is the general, the regiment commander, and the soldier; and he is charged with micromanagement of all troops deployed on the field. Strategy is determined almost exclusively during combat (barring pre-battle deployment layout), not outlined beforehand.
This is why we need the overview, simply because units cannot be trusted to make tactical decisions of any kind; besides fighting to their or their opponent's breaking point and chasing routers.

[lionhard]

The worst part? Surely its the best. Well organised armies lose many of their advantages when fighting in broken or forested terrain. That's as it should be. Romans and Greeks will - all things being equal (ie no AI involved) - usually beat Germans and Gallic troops on flat plain and lose in a forest. To avoid that you just need to move more carefully and use the general's moral bonus effectively.

Also, from memory its the Lusotannan that actually have the strongest bonus in a forest.

No mate just no mate.

It gets borin afta uv been doin it for 3 years

[anubis88]

Is sarcasm really so hard to pick up on this forums?

[lionhard]

no mate

[Ibrahim]

Is sarcasm really so hard to pick up on this forums?

no, but I doubt that your comment was sarcastic in a good way

anyways: I personally avoid the. woods like the plague. I tend to stick to rivers and coasts, venturing inland only to get to a city. when that is the case, I get really angsty.

however, if I have no choice, I just fight; behind, in front, I'll attack the enemy wherever he is.

[anubis88]

I didn't mean my comment, i ment Subotan's. He clearly states how it's "unhistorical" that the Generals didn't have the look of eagles of his men, and how it is "historical" in the RTW engine.

I think he was clearly joking, since in those wood battles you get the view the generals really had. Unfortunatly the units in your army are plain stupid if not commanded directly by you, so the "eagle" view was necessary.

[Jikot]

I didn't mean my comment, i ment Subotan's. He clearly states how it's "unhistorical" that the Generals didn't have the look of eagles of his men, and how it is "historical" in the RTW engine.

I think he was clearly joking, since in those wood battles you get the view the generals really had. Unfortunatly the units in your army are plain stupid if not commanded directly by you, so the "eagle" view was necessary.

Well I did pick up on the sarcasm, and in my last post I pretty much said what you said in that last paragraph. Hello!

[anubis88]

Ok, i'm an duche, i admit it. I missread your post, wasnt paying enough attention, so i owe you mi sincere apologies. I've just seen a few threads where sarcasm just wasn't noticed, and when i saw this one i just felt the need to say something. It's a bad habit, and i had a bad day.

I'm an idiot. I deserve to get a on my behind.

Don't make your judgment of me by this one post, usually i help where i can

[Jikot]

Ok, i'm an duche, i admit it. I missread your post, wasnt paying enough attention, so i owe you mi sincere apologies. I've just seen a few threads where sarcasm just wasn't noticed, and when i saw this one i just felt the need to say something. It's a bad habit, and i had a bad day.

I'm an idiot. I deserve to get a on my behind.

Don't make your judgment of me by this one post, usually i help where i can

Hah, no worries mate, nothing I've never been guilty of before.

[seienchin]

I also hate the woods. They are awfull and I dont remember any big army in history moving through a hostile forests for a long time or fighting in one. (Dont mention the Teutoburger forest battle, because it wasnt probably one big battle and it was for sure not in the Teutoburger forest)
With armies as big as Ebs it is just ludacris to fight in a forest, you see nothing,you have no controll over your units and you dont know whats going on in other part of the battlefield. Maybe everybody else of your army got slaughtered and you never recognize until to late. I cant imagine celts or germanic tribeman wanted that to happen in a big battle.

By the way combat bonus in woods istn that a big deal (I think it only enhances defense skill a little bit)

[Cute Wolf]

I also hate the woods. They are awfull and I dont remember any big army in history moving through a hostile forests for a long time or fighting in one. (Dont mention the Teutoburger forest battle, because it wasnt probably one big battle and it was for sure not in the Teutoburger forest)
With armies as big as Ebs it is just ludacris to fight in a forest, you see nothing,you have no controll over your units and you dont know whats going on in other part of the battlefield. Maybe everybody else of your army got slaughtered and you never recognize until to late. I cant imagine celts or germanic tribeman wanted that to happen in a big battle.

By the way combat bonus in woods istn that a big deal (I think it only enhances defense skill a little bit)

It actually increase attack damage.... as units will kill "sightly" faster in the forest
(lethality in EB are toned down, to see that the best way, try vanilla and watch docile barbarian warband suddenly kill at faster rate)

[Vilkku92]

I hate only those frorrests with those oversized Californian Redwood trees. With those smaller trees forrest battles are actually quite enjoyable.

[Subotan]

Don't be a fool, get rid of the giant trees.

[Vilkku92]

Don't be a fool, get rid of the giant trees.

I tried that, but there are still some giant trees, at least somewhere in gaul.

[Scutarii]

I'd really like to play Lusotannan but I just can't be bothered to deal with the trees, even with the mod I would rather fight Romans in an open field than deal with the annoyance of trees.

That's the main reason my favourite Barbarians are the Getai, good, unique units and no bloody trees unless I go west!