Nusantara Total War : Portugese Invasion

[Cute Wolf]

I mean they are muslim who do not learn Islam from Quran. propaganda also play some role on spreading religion.

and also, ancient historian have their own agenda. example; the greeks and the word "barbarian"

and I can't judge whether they are Evil or Good. I never live during their reign.

ok, ok... forget about some lengthy religious debate, let's going back to the titles and offices discussion.... what did you suggest if your muslim sultan have a heir who was a hindu? (put aside made anyone else as heir, killing him, or declare him as outlaw, we need to think of the offices name after some peaceful religion shift....)

[plutoboyz]

ok, ok... forget about some lengthy religious debate, let's going back to the titles and offices discussion.... what did you suggest if your muslim sultan have a heir who was a hindu? (put aside made anyone else as heir, killing him, or declare him as outlaw, we need to think of the offices name after some peaceful religion shift....)

hmm... Raja or Maharaja. because Raja is already adopted as Indonesian and Malay language. some Muslim Ruler also use Raja or Maharaja.

[Cute Wolf]

so, I think (because of limitation, and yeah, not only aceh, but some other sultanates have sultan of sultan titles, such as Sultan of Belitong are vassal of the Sultan of Palembang) we should made this generalization this much....

Faction leader got:
- if he was a muslim : Sultan (and taken as ephitet)
- If he was not a muslim : Maharaja (and taken as ephitet)

Governmental offices:
- if he was a muslim, and rule the historical Sultanate seat : Sultan Bla-bla-bla (offices only, not ephitet)
- if he was a muslim, but not rule the historical Sultanate seat : Raja Bla-bla-bla
- if he wasn't a muslim : Raja Bla-bla-bla...

[plutoboyz]

How about the Hindu one?

[Cute Wolf]

got Raja-Maharaja.... because all the Christian (puppet) rulers are taken hindu-derived titles and offices too...

[Nyz]

In Sejarah Melayu, the gun user was called Pegawai Istinggar. Used by Sultanate of Johor after the fall of Melaka to face Portuguese. But I am not sure wheather they were skirmisher, regular or elite, but the word Pegawai have connotation with middle class soldier.

BTW, the Turkish soldier in Acheh were called by Tuskish names or Acheh names?

of course we know that sultan of Rum, means turks, because if we go letter for letter, Jirisys might be confused

~Jirisys (You are not confused, do you?)

[Rahwana]

calling them "tentera rum" will cause confusion...

[Nyz]

calling them "tentera rum" will cause confusion...

. Tentera Rum make me think about Sassanid and Rome era of conflict.

[Rahwana]

yeah, I said to CW that maybe we should use Tentera Usman, but apparently, he didn't understand that Usman / Uthman, were the "original" name of the Ottomans

EDIT : he does undertands that "Uthmani" is another name of the Turks, but he thinks that inclusion of the Pahlawan Uthmani, as opposed to Syamisir was a bit weird.

By the way, he had reported that current bodyguard units are (on large):

Europeans : - Knights ( full armoured heavy cavalry with lances and swords ) 20 horsemen per unit (1 HP)

Aceh-Melaka : - Gajah Kenaikan ( elephant archers bodyguards ) 12 men (4 elephants) per unit (4HP / elephants)

Sriwijaya-Palembang : - Pengawal ????? (heavy cavalry with lances and axes / or maybe maces) 30 horsemen per unit (1 HP)

Pajajaran : - Pengawal Kuda Purgabaya (heavy cavalry with javelins and parang (dual wield cavalry is impossible with curent animation stats) I don't know why he planned to made them into elite skirmisher typed cavalry as he using javelins and not lances. Ok, plutoboyz may know about that better, as they are 20 men per unit (2HP)

and this was the problem, the Javanese faction Bodyguards... actually, I and CW are arguing each other with what type of Bodyguards that they'll use...

well, the Javanese royalty have some weird (we can call them immposible to portay correctly in RTW) way to go to battle. Generally, the nobles will ride to battle as heavily armoured horse archers (close to what we call cataphracts), and true cataphract lancers (including turrangawesi, the specific Javanese horse armour that was made from lacquered wood paired with steel plates). But the true Royalty will be either (EITHER!!!) escorted by Chariots, or lifted in sedan chairs (how lazy!) into the battle. That was some account of Javanese Royalty riding horse into battle as Cataphract, but they are exceptions and those who fight as true cavalry are generally carrer generals, and not the pampered royalty...

well, taking the consideration on the default FM (which will be the born royalty bodyguards), they ride chariots into battle, or enjoy sedan chairs... but in Babad Tanah Jawi, if they are required to fought and bolster the men's morale....... THEY WILL FOUGHT DISMOUNTED.

well, and that was our subject of debate

1) I propose they should be chariot bodyguards, maybe chariot archers, the second points of this choice is : the Javanese army did have majority of Infantry, but cavalry is important aspect, and they have some of the best cavalry in this age, especially their mounted archers and cataphracts. It was a good reason to made the generals as cavalry units because they are supposed to be good cavalry factions... well... but

2) Cute Wolf propose they should be infantry bodyguards, as he points out that they fought dismounted, and in many records, the king himself would led the decisive charges on foot 9as opposed on the chariots), but this will be a bit ridiculous, remember that Javanese have good horsemen? and this will look like Saka army led by infantry generals... simply weird... confusing eh?

3) I try to made a compromise, they could be Cataphract archers bodyguards... as this way, they will capable to fought in melee, while have significant range and ability to skirmish out of the battle, and only involved personally only if required... but we still don't have one words in this matter... anyone could help with an idea? thanks...

[Nyz]

I agreed that Melaka using elephant as bodyguard. It was very clear in Hikayat too.

But for the sake of knowledge, Melaka royal members also used horses and palanquin (Paduka Tuan fought Portuguese on palanquin, that was stated in Sejarah Melayu), so it was same case as variety in Javanese bodyguard.

hmm, can the RTW engines make FM riding horse, than dismount when fighting?.... I don't think so.

[plutoboyz]

yeah, I said to CW that maybe we should use Tentera Usman, but apparently, he didn't understand that Usman / Uthman, were the "original" name of the Ottomans

EDIT : he does undertands that "Uthmani" is another name of the Turks, but he thinks that inclusion of the Pahlawan Uthmani, as opposed to Syamisir was a bit weird...

no, their real name is Devlet-i ʿĀliye-yi ʿOsmāniyye. Osmāniyye for short (yes, it is how Ottoman turk call it.). Ustmani is for Arab, Persian. later introduced by the Persian to Aceh.
I have friend in Turkey. he knows a lot about Ottoman. do you have question about Ottoman army in Aceh?

Pajajaran : - Pengawal Kuda Purgabaya (heavy cavalry with javelins and parang (dual wield cavalry is impossible with curent animation stats) I don't know why he planned to made them into elite skirmisher typed cavalry as he using javelins and not lances. Ok, plutoboyz may know about that better, as they are 20 men per unit (2HP)

puragabaya actually able to use anykinds of weapon. kujang is favored among noble and their Javelin actually is a spear, Legionary fighting style was common. so my suggestion is:

Native name : Kasatrya Kuda Puragabaya.
English name: Sundanese Warrior preist cavalry.
Weapon: Kujang Pangarak(a spear-like kujang. like other kujang, its poisonous) and Javelin.