Hell and Christianity

[Fragony]

A marxist view means something different for historians, has nothing to do with economic theory, it's assuming a certain chain of events, a natural progression.

[Rhyfelwyr]

A marxist view means something different for historians, has nothing to do with economic theory, it's assuming a certain chain of events, a natural progression.

I know the Marxist view of history is something different from a political Marxist/communist, but as I understand it the defining point of Marxist historians is that they see all human history as being the development of the economy and class structure, and that these are the only factors which shape historical progression.

Of course, Marxist historians do take the view that society progresses through a set number of stages and that these developments are all pretty much inevitable... but surely that isn't the main point in the Marxist historical outlook. Even Adam Smith pushed the idea that there were four stages of society (primitive - nomadic - arable - commercial), known as 'stadialism'. All Marx did really was stick another stage on the end.

[Fragony]

You should see it as a method of reasoning, from abc or to cba, it has nothing to do with an opinion, just seeing history as a set of consequences instead of random events. In that way Weber is a Marxist historian.

[The Wizard]

Weberian history is different from Marxian history. Marx saw history as the result of mankind's different ways of interacting with the world around it ("modes of production"), Weber was an idealist IIRC.

[Kralizec]

Somewhat off topic, can somebody tell me what the jewish take on the afterlife is?

A marxist view means something different for historians, has nothing to do with economic theory, it's assuming a certain chain of events, a natural progression.

You should be using the word "deterministic" instead. Marxism is indeed deterministic, to the point of absurdity...

[The Wizard]

Somewhat off topic, can somebody tell me what the jewish take on the afterlife is?

Depends on the Jewish sect (the old saying "When there's two Jews, there are three opinions" applies). Generally there's no hell, in the sense of there being a fiery place of damnation waiting, at all times, for any sinner after he dies. There is Gehenna, a somber gray place much like the Asphodel Meadows of Hades. IIRC, depending on the tradition, souls either dwell there until the Last Judgment, or simply lie in the ground where they were buried until the same event. Only at that point, when the Meshioch has come, together with the end of the world, is a final judgment spoken by God, at which point sinners are cast into a fiery pit much like the Western conception of Hell and the good are taken to a new, idyllic world (cf. the world post-Ragnarok).

So there's no hell in the sense of it waiting for you right now, only at the end of time. You can make your peace with Adonai in that time. I'm not a practicing Jew, though (on the contrary, hoho), so I might be wrong.