According to christian beliefs, where's Gandhi now?

[The Wizard]

MLK was directly inspired by Gandhi's feats, though.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The former was just me making a point. The latter, however, was implied in your earlier posts.

I don't imply, I state. The fact that you say I "implied" it demostrates I never actually said it.

Penitence to whom? Jesus? And who says you need to do penitence to be moral?

For the last time, it's not about "being" moral. Penitence means the feeling of guilt for having committed a sin, not the performance of penance as a means of restitution.

The major error I think you're making is that you assume Christians think some people are of more value that others. Christianity doesn't work like that all people are of equal value in the eyes of God, without exception.

And I gave you several reasons why none of those examples apply, to which you declined to reply.

I think I made the point, repeatedly, that if Ghandi is less than perfect then he is not (in the Christian sense) moral, and therfore does not merit a place in heaven. This would, before you jump on it, make him exactly like everyone else.

Therefore, Ghandi can only enter heaven in the same way as anyone else, by the Grace of God.

The only question then (from a Christian persepctive) is how one comes to God's Grace, this brings us back to penitence.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Amen to the above post.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Amen to the above post.

You became an Armenian when I wasn't looking?

[Myrddraal]

I think the key misunderstanding here is that the Wizard is under the impression that morality is the key to heaven, and that what you're saying is that somehow if you're not Christian you're less moral. This is the argument (I think, I may be wrong) that he objects to, though I don't think it's an argument you're trying to make.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I think the key misunderstanding here is that the Wizard is under the impression that morality is the key to heaven, and that what you're saying is that somehow if you're not Christian you're less moral. This is the argument (I think, I may be wrong) that he objects to, though I don't think it's an argument you're trying to make.

I also see that as his gripe; and I'm not (nor would I ever) argue that.

What I object to is his insistence on seeing my beliefs on his terms.

[The Wizard]

I think the key misunderstanding here is that the Wizard is under the impression that morality is the key to heaven, and that what you're saying is that somehow if you're not Christian you're less moral. This is the argument (I think, I may be wrong) that he objects to, though I don't think it's an argument you're trying to make.

You misunderstand me completely. I'm not even discussing the afterlife; I have no interest in doing so because it probably doesn't exist. I'm merely taking offense to the idea that one can only be moral if one follows the teachings of a cosmic Jewish zombie (or pays penitence to him, or whatever). Morality can exist outside of a religious context, contrary to the (apparent) opinions of many in this thread, you know. And, contrary to PVC's claims, one can be moral, as in undertake morally righteous actions. Judging from his replies, being moral is only possible if you're penitent, which is preposterous. I can be just as moral as any Christian saint were I so inclined, regardless of paying penitence for any so-called sins any Christian says I have, and this holds true for Gandhi too.

[ajaxfetish]

I'm merely taking offense to the idea that one can only be moral if one follows the teachings of a cosmic Jewish zombie (or pays penitence to him, or whatever). And, contrary to PVC's claims, one can be moral, as in undertake morally righteous actions. Judging from his replies, being moral is only possible if you're penitent, which is preposterous. I can be just as moral as any Christian saint were I so inclined

Based on PVC's replies to you, I think you also misunderstand him completely. He's repeatedly said the opposite of what you are claiming he's said. Unless I've missed something, he has not claimed that you must follow the teachings of a cosmic Jewish zombie to be moral, nor has he suggested you could not be just as moral as any Christian saint. In fact, I've gotten the impression he would say you are in fact just as moral as any Christian saint. He just seems to think that that's irrelevant to whether you'll achieve salvation, which, since you're not concerned with the afterlife anyway, shouldn't matter to you.

Ajax

[Rhyfelwyr]

You became an Armenian when I wasn't looking?

Nah, Georgia is my favourite country in the Caucasus.

Seriously though, what is there in your post for me to disagree with?