An Unlikely Pair [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

Feel free to check out the quick topic that the mafia used. Also, being that this was my first game, can you all please indicate what you thought about it? Post both the positives and negatives and don’t hesitate to say what you didn’t like. I was very curious if by making the mafia unaware of each other I was weakening them, but it turned out to make the game very interesting.

For game balance:

I've had 7-player mini games where the two scums did not know each other and could not murder, and they still won. And the game started on a day phase, so the townies got the first shot.

That's a far more difficult set-up but overall it was very balanced.

That's the only criticism I have, is that it was very easy for the mafia. Not meant to be "whine... I lost" kind of criticism, in a very objective 3 distinct extra advantages in this game over a more balanced game.

If it was possible to win, then it was a fair game. I'll correct myself there. Just very hard.

[Methos]

The mafia were working against each other, so I hoped that would weaken them since they'd be trying to locate each other and kill the other one off. At the same time by not knowing each other, I realized that figureing out who the second mafia was would be a lot more difficult, hence the inclusion of an investigator. The problem was, the first night atheotes chose to investigate Beskar, who was also killed. The second night atheotes chose to investigate ATPG, but was killed instaed. Unfortunately the investigator never had a chance to benefit the innocent thieves.

I realize now that starting on a night phase is a bad thing for a seven man game, but that's part of the learning experience. I hope you all still enjoyed it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The mafia were working against each other, so I hoped that would weaken them since they'd be trying to locate each other and kill the other one off.

That makes sense, however if they don't immediately try to kill each other, it's game over for the innocents anyway. It's a two-day game. If they don't kill each other day one, it's over after day two. So it's not much of a handicap.

At the same time by not knowing each other, I realized that figureing out who the second mafia was would be a lot more difficult, hence the inclusion of an investigator.

I agree, that's necessary for fairness. The difficulty is if the investigator, which basically the entire innocent team requires in order to win... if they investigate incorrectly or die, innocents basically lose.

So the onus is on the mafia to win the game outright, not really for the innocents to guess correctly. And the game starts with a night phase... that's harsh (IMHO)

I realize now that starting on a night phase is a bad thing for a seven man game, but that's part of the learning experience. I hope you all still enjoyed it.

Oh indeed. We might have lost but I'll be darned if we didn't give it everything we had, and come within a hair of victory.

[Secura]

I really loved this game, in all honesty. Thought I'd talk you through my thoughts throughout;

On the first night, the Master Thief requested we kill Beskar. I told him that I'd prefer a capture, which he went along with, and that was that. I will admit I felt somewhat guilty and revealed my identity as the Cop to Beskar, and he essentially said he suspected Subotan of being the advocate for his arrest. That was my reasoning for the first night, when I honestly suspected noone.

On the first day phase, the Thief asked me to vote for Pizza, and when Subotan popped up and did just that, it made me even more suspicious; until Subotan turned out to be a civilian, whereby I immediately thought that Pizza was the Thief, the request to nominate himself a mere ploy for him to remove the Cop from the game early.

On the second night, the Thief wanted to kill atheotes. To test the waters, I said "what about Pizza?", but the Thief was actually fine with this. Not long before Methos' took our decision in, I changed my mind again to test the waters further; I suggested Diamondeye for the lynch, which the Thief was adamantly against, and basically said "Pizza or atheotes?". Gotcha, was the general thought for me at the time.

I chose to agree and arrest atheotes (murder is so morally reprehensible, no?) because I felt that Pizza's arguments would be invaluable should the Thief try to front me out. The game went into day phase where it turns out atheotes was the Ring Leader... I became somewhat confused, suspected that might mean he was the Thief I had to make decisions with, and essentially was back to Square One with no idea what to do.

In the end, it was Diamondeye's arguments that reaffirmed my belief in his real identity, and I voted to remove the murdering brigand. It was then clear to me that I would be able to bring the other thieves to justice and win the game. Know that I kept everyone alive by arresting them though, rather than killing you all as my 'partner' wished!

Honestly, I feel the victory should've gone to Diamondeye and Pizza just for their debate. If you seriously want a seven-man game to have alot of activity, get these two hotheads together!

As for the quality of the game, I liked the fact that the two 'mafia' factions were forced to work together, and I was constantly scratching my head as to who the Thief was; I suspected half the game, essentially. I never actually suspected there was an investigator, and it's unfortunate for the town that he didn't get the identity of one of the pair before his death.

Unfortunately, the game got to a point where the town couldn't win; it was a choice of the Cop arresting everyone and me winning, or the Thief killing everyone and Diamondeye winning.

[Secura]

I just noticed something; the thieves had to remove the Ring Leader from the game too. While this is self-explanitory in terms of narrative (he's the one regulating the small cut they're getting), it essentially means the town has to lynch him last or they would lose; they need him out of the game, but they heavily rely on his investigation results too. He was never going to reveal his role to anyone if he felt he would be lynched for being the Ring Leader.

Without him, there's no way of finding out the real threat; the Cop who wants to arrest the thieves or the Thief who wants to murder them all.

[Diamondeye]

I loved the game setup, Methos! It was extremely interesting imho, if a bit hard on the innocents, as ATPG suggests.

I must say, early on I was quite sure that ATPG was "The Cop" because he seemed to avoid the kill of him at nights. Also, arresting people instead of killing them would be typical of ATPG.

However, my last day talk with ATPG revealed to me that he was indeed a common thief (but also made it impossible for me to redirect his vote to Secura, who I realized was the Cop by then, since I acted scummy as ).

The reason I picked this approach to the last day was that my PM indicates "mafia" victory, which I take is the same as Secura's PM does. So I figured I'd win even if I died (albeit a less impressive win than if the cop died or if I survived).

Methos, I know this game was hard on the innocents but you should consider providing the mafia with a brief summary of the common thief goals. It was impossible to guess the Ringleader one.

[Beskar]

There were a few things needed to do for another game.

- Balancing (It is impossible for the common-thief to win.)
- Layout and Game Organisation (There was no start-times, end-times, etc)

Also, I just realised, didn't the common thieves just win the game? Your victory conditions were "Get Master's Minion" and "Get Ringleader", thus officially, both ATPG and CCRunner at least completed their victory conditions since the Cop doesn't come either of these two headings.

The write-ups themselves were good though.