Britishness in the periphery

[InsaneApache]

Good man. I'm all for English regionalism, within reason. Because no matter how bad everyone else is, they can't be worse than those bastards over the hill.

I know you live in Stockport sunny jim.

I lived in Scotland for a couple of years and I'm well aware how a lot of the Scots think about the English. I went up there a boy and came back to Manchester a hardened thug.

[Rhyfelwyr]

But this is a family, and requires public commitment, not public spite to make it work.
I don't blame the SNP, I blame the Scottish Unionist parties (Cons & Lab & Lib-Dem) for a refusing a referendum on Scottish independence, where such a declaration of commitment to the family might be made, and as long as that is denied we are left with the acid drip-drip of spite which weakens the family commitment of all members.

The problem with a referendum is over how it is phrased. If only two options are given (a simple yes/no), then the current majority opinion (more devolved power) may lean to the outright independence option. But if it is phrased with 3 options, then the more devolution option will probably win, and create more needless bureaucracy/politiicians.

I know you live in Stockport sunny jim.

I lived in Scotland for a couple of years and I'm well aware how a lot of the Scots think about the English. I went up there a boy and came back to Manchester a hardened thug.

I don't believe anti-Englishness can be that bad, simply because it is a middle-class phenomenon. Something like 12% of the Scottish population is either English born or has English parents, and the number of these that report discrimination is far less than that of other 'minority' groups. Source.

[Furunculus]

The problem with a referendum is over how it is phrased. If only two options are given (a simple yes/no), then the current majority opinion (more devolved power) may lean to the outright independence option. But if it is phrased with 3 options, then the more devolution option will probably win, and create more needless bureaucracy/politiicians.

i'm fine with in/out and damn the consequences. i'm only interested in the 'family' if the family is interested in me, and i say this as British Unionist.

[gaelic cowboy]

Britishness is becoming increasingly associated with Orangeism and sectarianism.

Yes a likely side effect of the "Were out here defending the empire from the Indians on the Frontier" Since the values of these people became intrinsically associated with symbols there cultural and political identity was at threat by its dilution at the core ie in London.

with these circumstances, I'm not sure what exactly the future of Britishness (or the union) is. Will it last, will it become purely a secondary identity, does it have the roots for a revival?

Britishness is both doomed and assured at the same time for two reasons the COE is no longer the force it was and newer people have come to UK see Britishness in a differant light to a Orangeman. Until Britishness delinks from Orangeism it will be indigestible for many ordinary people in the UK it smacks of religous intolerence and that is unacceptable to most people.

[Furunculus]

Britishness is both doomed and assured at the same time for two reasons the COE is no longer the force it was and newer people have come to UK see Britishness in a differant light to a Orangeman.

it might seem that way to a Mayo-man, but i'm not sure how much importance CoE is to the average 'mainlander'......

[gaelic cowboy]

it might seem that way to a Mayo-man, but i'm not sure how much importance CoE is to the average 'mainlander'......

Exactly thats what I meant it does not mean much any more at all so as a result Britishness needs and has evolved in the core while the regions which Rhyfelwyr was talking seen anachronistic in keeping that idea alive.

[KukriKhan]

British:
1) Stiff upper lip
2) Steely resolve in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds
3) When the chips are truly down, unity of effort among the diverse peoples - but in peacetime, loud and constant internal bickering
4) Seemingly DNA-level Inbred competition with the French
5) Quick wit

Stereotypes, I know. But I find at least 3 out of 5 applicable to every Brit I've met.

[gaelic cowboy]

British:
1) Stiff upper lip
2) Steely resolve in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds
3) When the chips are truly down, unity of effort among the diverse peoples - but in peacetime, loud and constant internal bickering
4) Seemingly DNA-level Inbred competition with the French
5) Quick wit

Stereotypes, I know. But I find at least 3 out of 5 applicable to every Brit I've met.

You forgot tea drinker's " Ah put kettle on" is a refrain imprinted not at a genetic but the atomic level

[Beskar]

Also forgot the gift of the understating. A precious which we are losing fast thanks to sensalism tabloid press.

Where are the days when a British Gentlemen gets stabbed by a sword through the heart and says "Oh my, it appears some one has just killed me."

[Rhyfelwyr]

Yes a likely side effect of the "Were out here defending the empire from the Indians on the Frontier" Since the values of these people became intrinsically associated with symbols there cultural and political identity was at threat by its dilution at the core ie in London.

Very true, and I think the fact that traditional Britishness exists now more in the regions has had the effect of leaving many feeling of the regional British feeling betrayed and sold out by London.

Britishness is both doomed and assured at the same time for two reasons the COE is no longer the force it was and newer people have come to UK see Britishness in a differant light to a Orangeman. Until Britishness delinks from Orangeism it will be indigestible for many ordinary people in the UK it smacks of religous intolerence and that is unacceptable to most people.

Indeed, although remember there are different connotations that come with different understandings of Britishness, both historically and in the present. The sense of Britishness associated with the rise of the welfare state was one aspect that played a big role in helping Scottish Catholics integrate into the British state. Also, as I understand things, in England, Britishness is seen as the more tolerant form of patriotism, due to it's idea of including the various peoples of Britain (as opposed to English nationalism which has been quite heavily associated with far-right views and racism etc)

[Justiciar]

I know you live in Stockport sunny jim.

You can't prove 'owt!

I'm Marpudlian. That's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it!