favorite medieval film?

[gollum]

Ok, although this question may be a bit of general interest, i reckon that movies, with their bold and immediate transport that effect in one to the time in question can act as major inspirations for anyone that plays the game.

For me, the best medieval films are, no not Monty Python and the Holy Grail nor Joan D'Arc and Kingdom of Heaven, but a black comedy film (that gossip has it, influenced very much the making of the Grail Python film), which is (unfortunately in terms of language) Italian (although it has been released in English under the title "For love and gold").

I am reffering to none other than the legendary Brancaleone da Norcia, a poor but valorous and kindhearted if not neive and pompous knight and the two films in which he stars in the search of fame, glory, titles and pretty princesses: "L'armata Brancaleone" (Brancleone's army) and "Brancaleone alle Crociate" (Brancaleone in the Crusades).

Both films are made by the legendary Italian director Mario Monicelli (who has authored other legendary comedies like "Amici miei" = "My friends").

In it a conscious full blown black satire of the middle ages is presented, including religion, chivalry, romance, nobility, the knight's quest and other such themes.

For those of you who can find the movie(s) with English subtitles, i would highly recommend them, although i have to underline that the archaic dialects of the Italian language and all their linguistic mannerisms Brancaleone and other characters speak are one of the highest pleasures of the film. In the second installment, most speech is delivered theatrically and in rhyme, adding to the feeling that one is infact watching an actual medieval ballad (that is punctuated by other elements of the narrative, as the duel between Brancaleone and Death himself).

What about other mainhallers' medieval cinematic preferences? and a few words about them and why you like them please.

[The Lurker Below]

i'd like to toss in an honorable mention for The Court Jester here. it is the Spaceballs of its day. a very popular version of Robin Hood and a movie called The Scarlet Pimpernel had just been released a couple years prior to it. Danny Kaye lends a great deal of satirical talent to make an enjoyable film.

[gollum]

Thanks for making me aware of this classic and awarded film, The lurker below. Lets see if anyone will mention El Cid: "From my cold dead hands!"

[Trapped in Samsara]

Hi

OK. A fantasy trilogy so probably inadmissible, but some of the battles in Peter Jackson's LoTR's The Two Towers and The Return of the King are pretty stirring. The charge of the Riders of Rohan before the walls of Minas Tirith! Great stuff.

Regards
Victor

[gollum]

Well Tolkien after all was a prof. in medieval litterature. Rohan is basically the Anglo-Saxons on horses (which Tolkien felt that if only they had in Hastings they would have beaten the Normans, the conquest of England by which he lamented as he had a deep love and affection for the Germanic mythos and ethos of the Anglo-Saxon culture), and Gondor a cross between French/Italians of the middle ages.

[naut]

I always liked Mel Brookes' Robin Hood: Men in Tights. From a castle being wheeled away on a massive cart to needing a locksmith for a chastity belt. One of my favourite movies.

I'll definitely look into L'armata Brancaleone and Brancaleone alle Crociate. Thanks for the recommendation.

[gollum]

Here are the intro clips from both films:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QOW...eature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9PrWuT-E-0

[Belisario]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Braveheart. How many MTW fans modded the game to play with the Scots inspired by this movie? I confess that I did it.

[gollum]

Certainly a most worthy and necessary addition to the list of favorite and inspirational medieval films.

[Martok]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Braveheart. How many MTW fans modded the game to play with the Scots inspired by this movie? I confess that I did it.

Frogbeastegg will kill me for saying this, but Braveheart is my favorite (serious) medieval-era movie as well; in fact, it's actually in my personal "Top Ten" list overall. Gross historical inaccuracies aside, I have to admit I find it a highly entertaining film.

Kingdom of Heaven gets an honorable mention. While it admittedly receives too much of the Ridley Scott "treatment" IMO, it still seems to do a reasonably good job of portraying medieval life.


All that being said.... If we're not excluding "serious" medieval movies, then my favorites are -- far and away -- The Princess Bride and Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Among me and my friends, I would be hard-pressed to think of two films that get quoted more often by us.

[gollum]

Favorite yes, but serious?

I reckognise that Braveheart had tremendous impact and even that it has charm for the historical epic fan, but truth be told it did so for all the wrong reasons.

The story, characters and cinematography are so pretentious and calculated for the intended effect, that its hard watching the movie without feeling appaled occasionally. The good bad duality is so very strong and punctuated, as other dualities as well: the male/female (that in film terms denotes the braveness of braveheart and the chickenness of Longshack's effeminate son), the "fairness" of battle valor (as if such a thing ever existed) that contrasts between Longshacks that is willing to sacrifice his own men (by pouring arrows in the melee), while Braveheart (implicitly) frowns upon such "unfair" tactics. Also the ahistoricaleness of the movie, especially the battle depictions is legendary - basically this is little more than historically inspired fiction.

By the way, it was Braveheart (among other things) that inspired (as a blueprnint and model) CA to do RTW and M2TW what they were - ie excercises in visual entertainment which is what Braveheart itself is.

As for the Kingdom of Heaven, although not without its virtues, it is imo a little more than a car commercial with a medieval theme. The fact that Orlando bloom can't act in a lead role by any means and so is terribly miscasted doesn't help matters either. Gladiator, which is the same thing as KoH, was much better simply because it was correctly casted.

All in all, you have many more to be afraid of than just ladyfrog.

[Ironsword]

I guess it's a medieval/myth crossover, but Excalibur was pretty amazing. Castle sieges, Jousts, personal combat and Jean-Luc Picard before Star Trek!

[gollum]

Excalibur is one of the best acted movies ever - that's because all actors were theatrical (british) actors. An amazing film and one that never tires me to watch again and again. Its mythos is deep and characters, story, dialogue are as much (if not much more!) enjoyable than the action scenes. The action itself is realistic and non-pretentious. An all time favorite for me.

[Belisario]

I agree with your reviews about Braveheart. Certainly the movie has historical inaccuracies and fall in topics. But, as Martoy says, I find it a highly entertaining film and even has the charm of the historical novels of Walter Scott like Ivanhoe. And excuse me if the comparison offends somebody.

I also admit that Kingdom of Heaven is one of my favorites, a truly inspirational film to any MTW player. And about main characters, I'm looking forward to seeing Russell Crowe again in the new version of Robin Hood legend by Ridley Scott.

[Martok]

All in all, you have many more to be afraid of than just ladyfrog.

Perhaps. But she's the one I fear most.

Froggy (very understandably) tends to have....strong feelings about films that portray England as the stereotypical "evil overlord/imperialistic megalomaniac", especially since it seems to happen so often. I'll admit it does seem like Hollywood has not been particularly charitable towards our friends across the Pond....

I keep meaning to ask what her feelings are on Master & Commander: The Far Side of the World, as it's one of the relatively few movies I can think of where the English are actually the good guys. Of course, the "bad guys" are changed from the USA in the book to the French in the movie; go figure....

I also admit that Kingdom of Heaven is one of my favorites, a truly inspirational film to any MTW player. And about main characters, I'm looking forward to seeing Russell Crowe again in the new version of Robin Hood legend by Ridley Scott.

Yeah, Kingdom of Heaven (and to a lesser extent, Braveheart) often get me in the MTW "mood" as well. In truth, I suspect that's one reason why I enjoy the film so much, as it reminds me of the game.

[gollum]

Oiginally posted by Martok
I'll admit it does seem like Hollywood has not been particularly charitable towards our friends across the Pond....

Neither are we towards it. Hollywood fillmmaking rarely (if ever) elevates itself to the "art" of cinema these days. However its most bitter critics are American directors of value actually. Read Coppola or Milius on the subject; they have a lot of "nice" things to say about modern Hollywood studio managers.

Yeah, Kingdom of Heaven (and to a lesser extent, Braveheart) often get me in the MTW "mood" as well.

That makes three of us. KoH has quite a few nice elements as say the costumes; some of the best armourers and costume makers were employed, and the results are great. The scenes of the armies marching to meet each other outside kerak are spectacular. The desert/landscapes are also well cinematographed in certain instances, despite the fact that for those who know, its clear that its the Moroccan desert and not the near eastern one.

Other drawbacks imo of the KoH are the patronising parts of the plot (that have pro-semitic modern political and moral overtones) as well as the secularised view of the Crusades and religion that is deplorable in a film of that sort and that era. The fast commercial like pace that Scott works in (he and his brother that made TopGun have one of the most succesful commercial spots companies ever) is also not fit to the theme and takes a lot from the movie in all areas.

In general , as many Scott films of this day and age, it is an opportunity wasted.

[The Lurker Below]

Perhaps. But she's the one I fear most.

Froggy (very understandably) tends to have....strong feelings about films that portray England as the stereotypical "evil overlord/imperialistic megalomaniac", especially since it seems to happen so often. I'll admit it does seem like Hollywood has not been particularly charitable towards our friends across the Pond....

Yeah, Kingdom of Heaven (and to a lesser extent, Braveheart) often get me in the MTW "mood" as well. In truth, I suspect that's one reason why I enjoy the film so much, as it reminds me of the game.

the "evil overlord" english is what most appeals to me in Braveheart. Scotch/Irish, Scots, Irish, and Welsh long ingrained feelings towards the english give 18th and 19th century american politics it's best flavor.

I can't stand that the princess who was in reality still in France had a role in the movie, but her use as an emissary reminds me of MTW.

[edyzmedieval]

Definitely Kingdom of Heaven, and I don't know why to be honest. I really enjoyed it.

Men in Tights was hilarious.

[gollum]

Speaking of the KoH, as most of you know, it is based and follows (sometimes more and sometimes less loosely) historical personalities and events. The despicable raids of Reynald de Chatillon that are punished in the film by Balbwin, King of Jerusalem, in reality took place against Byzantine Cyprus in conjuction with the Armenian rulers of little Armenia that took part in the raid. Nominally at the time Reynald as the ruler of Antioch was vassal of Manuel Komnenos the third of the Comnenian Byzantine emperors. Manuel's retribution was swift; he marched with his army catching Raynald with his "pants down", so to speak, as he barely had return from the raid. Much like in the film, Reynald decided to willingly take the humiliation and plea for mercy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_I_Komnenos
(cyprus invaded and manuel in antioch)

The episode is apparently lifted and fitted in the plot of the film.

[Belisario]

Raynald's humiliation to king Baldwin in the film maybe is inspired in his forced homage to Manuel Komnenos, but Raynald's despicable raids also took place against muslim caravans and even launched a pirate attack on the Red Sea during his rule as lord of Oultrejordain, and he was executed by Saladin himself after the Battle of Hattin as it's showed in the film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raynald_of_Ch%C3%A2tillon

[Madoushi]

I'll admit I've not yet seen Kingdom of Heaven (I think I always confuse it with The Kingdom)

I must say I'm probably one of the only people who didn't enjoy The Princess Bride. I much preferred Holy Grail, Men in Tights and especially A Knight's Tale.

I don't know that I've even SEEN many Medieval movies, aside from 294759378593785923 different renditions of Robin Hood and King Arthur.
The only one that stands out is Alexander which is difficult for me to watch, as it really plays up his vulnerability and self-destructiveness.

[gollum]

Indeed Belisario, actually the scene of his execution has been shortened in the theatrical version of the film (but restored in the director's cut). After Saladin slits his throat, the guards torture him some before he finally passes away by Saladin's hand. The full scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p43T...eature=related

[gollum]

Welcome to the org and the main hall Madoushi, enjoy your stay.

I haven't watched Alexander yet, apart from segments of teh gaugamela battle in youtube. It seemed much better than i expected, although in my oppinion its miscasted and i am not a big fan of Oliver Stone.

Here are some lists of medieval films:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/medfilms.html#listsacc
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/medfilms.html#listsfilm

I am surprised that no-one mentioned El-Cid yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XXvtIHRSq4

[Trapped in Samsara]

Hi

Have any of you chaps seen Willow?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096446/

It's got some great hand-to-hand combat & swordplay scenes in it.

Plus some rather slushy elements to the fantasy storyline - and a bit of humour - it has to be said.

Regards
Victor

[gollum]

Yes, willow had its moments as did legend. My personal favorite for swords and sorcery (although in actuality its much more in line with classic epic filmmaking in the Kurosawa streak) is John Milius' Conan the Barbarian (Conan the destroyer was overly commercial exploitation imo). Even Swartzy plays great, testimony that a good script and director with vision is what really makes a film.

There are also a series of eastern european films that portray the Teutonic Wars: one of them is the classic Alexander Nevsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky_(film)), by the all time great director Sergei Eisenstein.

The film is in black and white, but a joy to watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bfDJcZE2aM

Also noteworthy is the Polish film Krzyżacy (knights of the cross)- which portrays the battle of Grunwald,in which the Teutonic order lost to Poland- Lithuania
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V57...eature=related

[Trapped in Samsara]

Hi

Gollum, you've reminded me of Andrei Tarkovsky's "Andrei Rublev". The horror and utter grimness and despair inducing reality of Medieval existence graphically portrayed.

Regards
Victor

[gollum]

An excellent movie Victor. I myself never watched it, the only Tarkovsky film i've watched was mirror, which was utterly great (i was lucky enough to watch it in a theater). I've got to see Solaris too one day, although as most will know it has been remade.

[Jxrc]

1. Flesh & Blood (P. Verhoeven with Rutger Hauer and Jennifer Jason Leigh) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flesh_%26_Blood_(film) - Dark, violent, etc What's not to like ...
2. 13th Warrior - Was a huge flop when it came out. Bought the DVD for € 8,00 or something just to check. Kind of movie you can always watch when bored on a Sunday evening ...
3. Lady Hawke - Rutger Hauer again with M. Pfeiffer and Matthew Broderick. Quite nice but the music is very 80's and gets in the way AFAIK
4. Excalibur - Would probably be higher on the list if I had not seen it that many times. Nice to know that Morgane finally became the Queen (ok sorry) ...
5. The Lion in Winter - The best actors and script by far. Probably the best film of the lot but not one I would watch over and over again.

[gollum]

Nice list Jxrc, i sort of like the 13th warrior, because among other things its lifted wholesale from the 7 samurai. Some parts of the movie are really ok. The most ridiculous bit is the neaderdal enemies for me. It takes a lot out of the film, and what it makes is little imo.

[Jxrc]

The most ridiculous bit is the neaderdal enemies for me. It takes a lot out of the film, and what it makes is little imo.

Looks a bit silly indeed but they probably needed to make the "evil guys" not too smart to justify that they run away for the mere fact that the "mother" and they guy with the "horns of power" have been butchered ...

Not the kind of film to watch in a too critical frame of mind ... Just enjoy the final "Lo, there do I see my father Lo, there do I see my mother, my sisters and my brothers ... they bid me take my place among them in the halls of Valhalla Where the brave may live forever" :))