Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: Overkill or No Kill at All

  1. #1
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,369

    Default Overkill or No Kill at All

    An article for you

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/18/...ex.html?hpt=C1

    Now this thread isn't really about the article but about a wider problem in America (Maybe in Europe to, but Glenn beck [PBUH] says they are already gone) In todays society we seem to take either the 0-tolerance extereme or the to much tolerance extreme.

    Now I assume there are competent adults in power, what are they thinking when they are doing this? Who is making them do this?

    I guess the answer would be the PTA who, when enacting these policies think that only thugged out blacks or mexicans will get cuaght doing bad things not there perfect little white child.

    I mean why should they? The media is all about hysteria and these are the images we see everyday. DRUG DEALERS, GUNS, PREGANACY.

    So I guess that means it would be a reaction to these boogeyman who lurk in the corners ready to pounce as soon as we let our guard down?

    Then there is the otherside of the fence, where the kid needs a good crack in the head but doesn't get one because everyone is to hung up on what someone else might think or how it would look so the sacrafice there childs well being and growth to save there own face.

    Does that mean likeabilty has overtaken what is right?

    We have drugged up kids, kids who needs dads, kids who need moms, kids who need more hugs, kids who need less hugs.

    Yet we seem more concerend with catering to the .01% of the absolute worst that these other kids end up gravatating toward one of these two extremes because that is what is presented to us?

    I guess what Im really asking is this:

    Have we lost all discernment in favor of the rulebook?
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  2. #2
    Member Centurion1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wherever my blade takes me or to school, it sorta depends
    Posts
    6,007

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    My favorite is the boy scout who got into wespt point but then got expelled from having a 2 inch penknife in his car from a camping trip he had just returned from....... ridiculous.

  3. #3
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Brass heart.
    Posts
    2,414

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Zero tolerance policies are a great way to ablsolve yourself of drafting any type of effective regulations. I don't think they really achieve anything and considering the way that cases concerning extreme use of zero tolerance policies tend to work out, they serve only to point out how ridiculous zero tolerance really is.
    Requesting suggestions for new sig.

    -><- GOGOGO GOGOGO WINLAND WINLAND ALL HAIL TECHNOVIKING!SCHUMACHER!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    WHY AM I NOT BEING PAID FOR THIS???

  4. #4
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    They ought to be called zero-intelligence policies. It's a cop out, an easy way to get rid of the need to think up reasonable actions.

    Zero tolerance policies ought to be removed.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  5. #5
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a hopeless place with no future
    Posts
    8,646

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Despite the extremes of zero-tolerance/not doing anything, I reckon the vast majority of schools do act reasonably when it comes to things like this. I would say they do here in the UK anyway.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  6. #6
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Russia/Europe in the summer, Florida rest of the time
    Posts
    3,473

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South;2435593
    [B
    Have we lost all discernment in favor of the rulebook?[/B]
    Oh yes, I do not even need to explain why.

    The sad part is, by arresting the children and making them think they have committed a dire offence, we are making them criminals in turn. You only need to wildly overpunish a child a few times before he or she begins thinking of herself as a 'bad' person, and soon she is desensitised to her own transgressions, and simply rebels in an apathy resulting from helplessness.

    Child labour is forbidden today, and yet is often argued that having a job at, say, the start of teenage years (I mean about 12 or so) builds character and responsibility, if the work is not too loathsome or difficult to the child. Now, of course, children can work for pay for, say, a neighbour, moving their lawn, and so the child labour laws are very much relevant because they prevent the exploitation of children. I make no claim that child labour laws should be adjusted - instead I am using the spirit in which these laws were passed to contrast with the spirit in which children are prosecuted today. Chores are an example of this. Leave a child with no responsibilities, and character development may stumble. But this is not entirely proven and exceptions, of course, abound.

    What is, however, proven, is the effect of punishment on children, and how excessive punishment leads to crime later in life. Kids can become used to being 'bad', and this attitude is worrisome for an adult to espouse. Today's American society insists on protecting children from adult work, but at the same time punishes the children just as adults, with no regard for the nature of children.

  7. #7
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    This is child abuse, and the people responsible should be locked away for years.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  8. #8
    imaginary Member Weebeast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Tranquility Lane
    Posts
    530

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    She's cute. Watch me get 10 years for saying that and come out pro criminal with experience in some prison loving (no homo). If I'm lucky I'd get "sexual offender" tattooed on my forehead instead.

  9. #9
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Brass heart.
    Posts
    2,414

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Quote Originally Posted by Weebeast View Post
    She's cute. Watch me get 10 years for saying that and come out pro criminal with experience in some prison loving (no homo). If I'm lucky I'd get "sexual offender" tattooed on my forehead instead.
    Are you drunk?
    Requesting suggestions for new sig.

    -><- GOGOGO GOGOGO WINLAND WINLAND ALL HAIL TECHNOVIKING!SCHUMACHER!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    WHY AM I NOT BEING PAID FOR THIS???

  10. #10
    Member Centurion1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wherever my blade takes me or to school, it sorta depends
    Posts
    6,007

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    ^ im wondering the same thing. or excessively disillusioned.

    Edit: or both very very very very very drunk and disillusioned

  11. #11
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Western New Yuck
    Posts
    7,914

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Apparently common sense isn't as common as we thought. Have her stay after school to scrub the desk clean or clean all the desks in the classroom of gum, boogers, and whatnot. People should let their school board know this over-reaction shouldn't be tolerated, unfortunately most are probably too apathetic to care.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  12. #12
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Russia/Europe in the summer, Florida rest of the time
    Posts
    3,473

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossLOPER View Post
    Are you drunk?
    Huh? Why do you say so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito View Post
    Apparently common sense isn't as common as we thought. Have her stay after school to scrub the desk clean or clean all the desks in the classroom of gum, boogers, and whatnot. People should let their school board know this over-reaction shouldn't be tolerated, unfortunately most are probably too apathetic to care.
    It is like this in every school, all the time. Or from what I saw so far in all the places I have been, attended, or had friends attend schools at.Punishment is very formal, very standardised, very bureaucratic, and teachers write off referrals one after another. Everything goes to the dean and then it goes on your permanent record. Suspension usually follows. Suspension has got to be the most illogical punishment ever devised (those who want good grades get a double whammy for missing school and receiving zeroes while the real troublemakers revel in a chance to skip school with no other consequences ), but it is widespread.
    Last edited by Aemilius Paulus; 02-19-2010 at 01:04.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    9,103

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Quote Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus View Post
    It is like this in every school, all the time. Or from what I saw so far in all the places I have been, attended, or had friends attend schools at.Punishment is very formal, very standardised, very bureaucratic, and teachers write off referrals one after another. Everything goes to the dean and then it goes on your permanent record. Suspension usually follows. Suspension has got to be the most illogical punishment ever devised (those who want good grades get a double whammy for missing school and receiving zeroes while the real troublemakers revel in a chance to skip school with no other consequences ), but it is widespread.
    Detention is also nonsensical. Instead of getting you to do something constructive, the kids just sit in a room for a while. Oh, my, scary.
    #Hillary4prism

    BD:TW

    Some piously affirm: "The truth is such and such. I know! I see!"
    And hold that everything depends upon having the “right” religion.
    But when one really knows, one has no need of religion. - Mahavyuha Sutra

    Freedom necessarily involves risk. - Alan Watts

  14. #14
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Russia/Europe in the summer, Florida rest of the time
    Posts
    3,473

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    Detention is also nonsensical. Instead of getting you to do something constructive, the kids just sit in a room for a while.
    Hmm, in America detention usually involves some sort of work, at least from my experiences. Still better than suspension. However, another one of my experiences was that detention is primarily a primary education tool - not normally used in secondary schools, i.e the high schools.

  15. #15
    Member Centurion1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wherever my blade takes me or to school, it sorta depends
    Posts
    6,007

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    It is like this in every school, all the time. Or from what I saw so far in all the places I have been, attended, or had friends attend schools at.Punishment is very formal, very standardised, very bureaucratic, and teachers write off referrals one after another. Everything goes to the dean and then it goes on your permanent record. Suspension usually follows. Suspension has got to be the most illogical punishment ever devised (those who want good grades get a double whammy for missing school and receiving zeroes while the real troublemakers revel in a chance to skip school with no other consequences ), but it is widespread.
    You applied to colleg rigt. You gotta say whethr you were suspended, it can get messy or so i hear.........

  16. #16
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Russia/Europe in the summer, Florida rest of the time
    Posts
    3,473

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    You applied to colleg rigt. You gotta say whethr you were suspended, it can get messy or so i hear.........
    Huh? No, but I have seen suspensions and referrals dished out as if the were going out of style to-morrow...


    Then again, the defiant and stubborn attitude of the American teenagers never failed to amaze me. In my entire HS history, I have seen tens of referrals handed out, and not once a person back down when a teacher made an objection...

  17. #17
    Guest Azathoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Gnawing hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes.
    Posts
    783

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Instead, the principal of the Junior High School in Forest Hills, New York, called police, and the seventh-grader was taken across the street to the police precinct
    Jesus Christ, I live there.

    I would have really laughed if the junior high school in question was Russell Sage.

    EDIT: OH ****, JHS 190, it IS Russell Sage! Wow, how that school has fallen.
    Last edited by Azathoth; 02-19-2010 at 04:53.

  18. #18
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    The Land of Heat and Clockwork
    Posts
    4,990
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossLOPER View Post
    Are you drunk?
    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion1 View Post
    ^ im wondering the same thing. or excessively disillusioned.

    Edit: or both very very very very very drunk and disillusioned
    Huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Azathoth View Post
    Jesus Christ, I live there.

    I would have really laughed if the junior high school in question was Russell Sage.

    EDIT: OH ****, JHS 190, it IS Russell Sage! Wow, how that school has fallen.
    Is that a prestigious school?

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    mayo
    Posts
    4,833

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    "Thank God we live in a country so hysterical about crime that a ten year old boy can be tried as an adult" - Charles Montgomery Burns
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  20. #20
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Saint Antoine
    Posts
    9,935

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Lower Merion School District sued for cyber spying on students


    Lower Merion School District officials brag that they give every one of their 1,800 high-schoolers laptop computers to "ensure that all students have 24/7 access to school-based resources."

    Instead, they ensured they got a 24/7 sneak peek into students’ private lives by secretly monitoring webcams embedded in the laptops to spy on teens and their families at home, according to a federal, class-action lawsuit filed this week in Philadelphia.


    http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ho...cmpid=15585797
    Merely overkill, or China in the US? A teenage boy was reprimanded at school for "improper behavior in his home".

    Great. You sign up for a school with a "mobile, 21st-century learning environment". Then you find out this environment consists of the school filming and monitoring you and your family inside your home.

    Including - for totalitarianism is always as much about authoritarian control as empowering 'the little creep' on which the system rests - a nice collection of all the girls (and boys) in their bedrooms.

    The family first learned of the embedded webcams on Nov. 11, when Harriton High's Assistant Principal Lindy Matsko reprimanded Blake Robbins for "improper behavior in his home," according to the lawsuit. Matsko cited as evidence a photograph from the webcam on the boy's school-issued laptop.
    The lawsuit does not specify why the photograph was objectionable.


    Because the webcam can capture anything happening in the room where the laptop is, district personnel could illicitly observe plenty more than a student's online activity, the lawsuit alleges.


    "Many of the images captured and intercepted may consist of images of minors and their parents or friends in compromising or embarrassing positions, including, but not limited to, in various stages of dress or undress," the lawsuit charges.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  21. #21
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Albion
    Posts
    15,930
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    What right has the school to discipline a child for behaviour in their home? They have no jurisdiction there.
    Days since the Apocalypse began
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."

  22. #22
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Brass heart.
    Posts
    2,414

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    What right has the school to discipline a child for behaviour in their home? They have no jurisdiction there.
    In the school system that I entered in the US, EVERYTHING you did during the schoolyear was their business. Whether you got into a fight in school, after school or on Saturday, it does not matter.
    Requesting suggestions for new sig.

    -><- GOGOGO GOGOGO WINLAND WINLAND ALL HAIL TECHNOVIKING!SCHUMACHER!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    WHY AM I NOT BEING PAID FOR THIS???

  23. #23
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Albion
    Posts
    15,930
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    In Britain, it is everything that happens on the school grounds and academically.

    If they suspected something like Child-Abuse, they report it to Social Services to deal with.
    Days since the Apocalypse began
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."

  24. #24
    Guest Azathoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Gnawing hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes.
    Posts
    783

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Is that a prestigious school?
    No, just your average middle school in a not-terrible neighborhood. Better than Louis Armstrong, at least.

    The family first learned of the embedded webcams on Nov. 11, when Harriton High's Assistant Principal Lindy Matsko reprimanded Blake Robbins for "improper behavior in his home," according to the lawsuit. Matsko cited as evidence a photograph from the webcam on the boy's school-issued laptop.
    The lawsuit does not specify why the photograph was objectionable.
    Oh boy, I wonder if the poor sap had been searching up pornography on that machine.

    The real question is, how many people do you need to continuously monitor 1800 children 24/7?

  25. #25
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Quote Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus View Post
    Hmm, in America detention usually involves some sort of work, at least from my experiences. Still better than suspension. However, another one of my experiences was that detention is primarily a primary education tool - not normally used in secondary schools, i.e the high schools.
    Heh detention was fun for me as the principle really liked me, had to bring him coffee, we had a chat, he told my mom he was glad I made his work somewhat interesting. He nearly choked when I was send off because I made my religion teacher a stigmata-kit for Sinterklaas (dutch Santa Claus) It was usually 3 red cards you are out, I have gotten hundreds of them I was basically the running joke among my teachers. My principle once gave me the choice between detention and a good kick in the butt, I had been a smart-ass, since the guy was pretty nimble I chose the kick, and then he brought in my 2 meter high french teacher, thank god he went easy on me.
    Last edited by Fragony; 02-21-2010 at 12:11.

  26. #26
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Russia/Europe in the summer, Florida rest of the time
    Posts
    3,473

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Hehe, nice story indeed. I mean, I was always the teacher favourite, but I doubt I could have gotten away with anything that deserved detention in my school... Punishment is taken very seriously in here, too seriously, and it is all institutionalised, standardised, organised, legalised, bureaucratised and so on... The best teacher I had was my psychology teacher, and I spent the whole year talking with him, sitting in the back of the class, right next to his desk. I never did any of the classwork, only the tests, and got a 98. That was as far as favouritism took me.

  27. #27
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    12,980

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Quote Originally Posted by Azathoth View Post
    Oh boy, I wonder if the poor sap had been searching up pornography on that machine.
    No, according to the kid, he was accused of taking drugs. What the school claims is him taking pills, he maintains are Mike & Ike candies (an elongated, capsule-like jelly bean). The school also maintains the security feature has only been activated 42 times for machines that were reported lost or stolen, however, the student's machine had not been reported as such. Knowledge of the feature was mixed among the students and some of them had put tape or paper over the webcams to prevent possible intrusions. This is a rather big local story, so there has been a lot of coverage. The school seems to be backpedaling now, so I think that even if the particular incident that sparked the lawsuit turns out to be false, the school district officials are in hot water. The whole thing has "stupid idea" written all over it, but that is probably just hindsight in my case.
    This space intentionally left blank

  28. #28
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Quote Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus View Post
    Hehe, nice story indeed. I mean, I was always the teacher favourite, but I doubt I could have gotten away with anything that deserved detention in my school... Punishment is taken very seriously in here, too seriously, and it is all institutionalised, standardised, organised, legalised, bureaucratised and so on... The best teacher I had was my psychology teacher, and I spent the whole year talking with him, sitting in the back of the class, right next to his desk. I never did any of the classwork, only the tests, and got a 98. That was as far as favouritism took me.
    Well we got the Dutch nature of being as devious as you can possibly get, it's something we can't control Dutch people will always be horrible, we think it's fun.

  29. #29
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    The Land of Heat and Clockwork
    Posts
    4,990
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: Overkill or No Kill at All

    Girl touches (Yes, really), an ADHD pill offered to her by a classmate; she declines, but is suspended from school anyway.
    The school's reasoning?
    "Someone hands them a pill or a drug or something like that and they say well I said no I didn't participate. Well the act of saying no is not to be there, not to be involved in the handling the you know they didn't have to put their hand out," says Marty Bell of Greater Clark County Schools.
    If you can cut through the tortuous use of the English language in the above quote, you'll see that the school's explanation is that she shouldn't have put her hand out in the first place.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO