Falklands

[ICantSpellDawg]

What in the hell? Clearly the inhabitants are predominately British and the Crown has held the Islands for most of their inhabited history. What in the world are the Lating American nations talking about?

Are the Argentinians going to start another war? What do you guys think?

[spmetla]

Not likely, just the usual saber rattling to distract the populace. Besides, Argentina's amphibious capabilities haven't been expanded while the Falklands are now actually garrisoned by a quite capable force. In a few years the Royal Navy should have two very capable Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers which will also be able to project the UK's power a lot better than during the last go.

Now that the Brits are developing its oil reserves Argentina wants its cut. Argentina, if anything is probably just going to take advantage of the anti anglo/american climate in the world to try and push through UN resolutions to establish some undeserved rights in the Falklands.

Here's the article I think you're referring to:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8529605.stm

Latin American and Caribbean leaders have come to an agreement supporting Argentina over sovereignty of the Falkland Islands, reports say.

The leaders are to approve a document supporting Argentina in its territorial dispute with the British government.

No official statement has been made but it is thought the document was drawn up behind closed doors at a regional summit in Cancun in Mexico.

The announcement comes as a British rig began drilling for oil off the islands.

According to reports from Cancun, Argentine President Cristina Kirchner says her government has won the backing of other regional leaders in its dispute with the UK over the territory in the South Atlantic.

The Mexican President, Felipe Calderon, is reported to have said that a document has been drawn up behind closed doors giving Argentina unanimous support.

The BBC's Andy Gallacher in Cancun says that any broad agreement at the summit could put more pressure on the British government in what has become an escalating diplomatic row.

Leaders at the summit, between the Rio Group and the Caribbean Community (Caricom), are also said to have discussed plans for a new pan-American alliance which would exclude Canada and the United States.

The new grouping would serve as an alternative to the Organisation of American States (OAS), the main forum for regional affairs in the past 50 years.

"It's time to realise the unity of Latin America and the Caribbean," said Mr Calderon, asking the attending leaders and foreign ministers to put aside their political differences.
Ocean Guardian under tow
The Ocean Guardian is in Falkland Islands waters

'Legitimate right'

The British rig, The Ocean Guardian, 100km (62 miles) north of the Falklands, started drilling on Monday, despite fierce opposition from Argentina.

Desire Petroleum, which is carrying out the drilling, said operations had started on the Liz 14/19-A exploration well at 1415 GMT.

Argentina claims sovereignty over what it calls the Islas Malvinas and has imposed shipping restrictions.

But UK Defence Minister Bill Rammell said the government had a "legitimate right" to build an oil industry in its waters.

Mr Rammell said the UK would take "whatever steps [were] necessary" to protect the islands and that it had made Argentina "aware of that".

Argentina is already assured of support from President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, who said Britain was being irrational and had to realise the "time for empires was over".

Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega has called for "Britain to return the territory of the Malvinas to its real owners - to return it to Argentina" on Venezuelan Telesur television.

Argentina has long claimed the islands. It invaded the Falklands in 1982, before a UK taskforce seized back control in a short war that claimed the lives of 649 Argentine and 255 British service personnel.

But it has ruled out military action and is trying to pressure Britain into negotiations on sovereignty.

Last year Argentina submitted a claim to the United Nations for a vast expanse of ocean, based on research into the extent of the continental shelf, stretching to the Antarctic and including the island chains governed by the UK.

It is due to raise the issue at the UN later this week.

[Subotan]

Wouldn't it make more sense for Argentina to see if there's actually any oil there first?

[naut]

Are the Argentinians going to start another war? What do you guys think?

Bring 'em on I say. We ruffed them up proper last time. If they want round two then we should oblige. Another invasion will surely put a damper on any support for them outside of South/Central America.

[Furunculus]

What in the hell? Clearly the inhabitants are predominately British and the Crown has held the Islands for most of their inhabited history. What in the world are the Lating American nations talking about?

Are the Argentinians going to start another war? What do you guys think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soverei...lkland_Islands

they cannot invade, they have nothing to invade with as they can no longer project meaningful power. more to the point; the falklands is much better defended and much more easily reinforced.
ain't gonna happen.

[InsaneApache]

Bring 'em on I say. We ruffed them up proper last time. If they want round two then we should oblige. Another invasion will surely put a damper on any support for them outside of South/Central America.

Back in 83 I worked with a guy, ex-para, who'd been in the Falkland war. I have no idea what he saw or what happened to him and I didn't really want to pry but I'll never forget the eyes. It was the sort of look you get from traffic cops who've seen too many car crashes.

As for the Argies, rearranged these words in the corrct order:

Arses, plate, handed, them, to, on, a.

[Furunculus]

Chavez is making himself look like a berk again:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ni...-court-jester/

“Look, England, how long are you going to be in Las Malvinas? Queen of England, I’m talking to you… The time for empires are over, haven’t you noticed? Return the Malvinas to the Argentine people… The English are still threatening Argentina. Things have changed. We are no longer in 1982. If conflict breaks out, be sure Argentina will not be alone like it was back then.”

lol.

[Subotan]

Argentina and Venezuela United vs. Kingdom of England?

TAKING ALL BETS

[HoreTore]

Let 'em have it, I say.

Why the brits feel they can own a piece of land on the other side of the globe is beyond me, really. It's closest to Argentina, and as such it's appropriate for the islands to belong to Argentina.

But I guess the Brits need something to remind themselves of a time when other nations actually cared about them....

[InsaneApache]

Let 'em have it, I say.

Why the brits feel they can own a piece of land on the other side of the globe is beyond me, really. It's closest to Argentina, and as such it's appropriate for the islands to belong to Argentina.

But I guess the Brits need something to remind themselves of a time when other nations actually cared about them....

Dear oh deary me. Following your logic, Alaska should be Canadian, the Channel Islands should be French, oh and Norway should be Swedish.

The people who actually live there want to remain British. It's not that hard really!

[Pannonian]

Let 'em have it, I say.

Why the brits feel they can own a piece of land on the other side of the globe is beyond me, really. It's closest to Argentina, and as such it's appropriate for the islands to belong to Argentina.

But I guess the Brits need something to remind themselves of a time when other nations actually cared about them....

Because we can.

[HoreTore]

Dear oh deary me. Following your logic, Alaska should be Canadian, the Channel Islands should be French, oh and Norway should be Swedish.

Yes, and what would be the problem with that?

Because we can.

Gordon Brown should troll some forums for his e-penis enlargment instead....

[therother]

Argentina do have a strong claim to the islands (*). That much has been recognised by the UK since the early 1900s at least. I'm sure, if the islands had been uninhabited, then it's likely the British would have given up their claim to sovereignty, certainly after 1960 (when the United Nations passed Resolution 1514 & 1515 concerning decolonisation and the right of peoples to be self-governing) and probably before that.

The problem is that they are not uninhabited and the majority of the people wish to remain British citizens, which is pretty much the end of the matter for me. Indeed, a significant majority of the Islanders are openly hostile to any negotiations over sovereignty, particularly since the Falklands war. Until the Islanders are say they want to either be independent or part of a former Spanish colony, I think it would be very hard for any democratic government to transfer governance of a territory against the express wishes of its inhabitants.

Argentina, it appears, is not swayed by the self-determination argument though. It argues that as the Islanders are not aboriginal they do not have the right of self determination. Which is a puzzling argument to me, as if the non-aboriginal Falkland Islanders don't have the right to determine the fate of the Falkland Islands then it follows that non-aboriginal Argentinians have no right to determine the fate of Argentina...

(*) although probably not much stronger than other former Spanish colonies in the region such as countries Uruguay and Paraguay.

[Myrddraal]

Dear oh deary me. Following your logic, Alaska should be Canadian, the Channel Islands should be French, oh and Norway should be Swedish.

Q.E.D.

Yes, and what would be the problem with that?

On a personal level I don't really care, but the people of Alaska, the Channel Islands and even some in Norway might. On a side note, I think they should make you Norwegian envoy to Northern Ireland. I'd love to see the faces of the NI assembly when you address them: "Ladies and Gentlemen, yesterday I took out my ruler and found that NI was right next to the republic of Ireland, but my ruler was not even long enough to reach Wales! Stop the violence!"

[naut]

Why the brits feel they can own a piece of land on the other side of the globe is beyond me, really. It's closest to Argentina, and as such it's appropriate for the islands to belong to Argentina.

Except 70% of the population are British. The remaining 29% are Kelpers, who are ethnic Islanders with British citizenship. In fact less than 1% are Argie. The Spanish speakers on the Island are Chilean, mostly immigrants from San Helena. Additionally the Argies never owned it for a meaningful period of time.

I feel the same way about this as I do with Gibraltar. Keep it British for as long as the population feels they are British.

[InsaneApache]

Aye, and while we're about it, we'll have Australia back.

[Furunculus]

Why the brits feel they can own a piece of land on the other side of the globe is beyond me, really. It's closest to Argentina, and as such it's appropriate for the islands to belong to Argentina.

you might not care about the westphalian system of sovereign nation states, but i've yet to see any evidence that your view-point is in the majority, there is not even an accepted legal position on co-sovereignty that could replace the former.

Except 70% of the population are British. The remaining 29% are Kelpers, who are ethnic Islanders with British citizenship. In fact less than 1% are Argie. The Spanish speakers on the Island are Chilean, mostly immigrants from San Helena. Additionally the Argies never owned it for a meaningful period of time.

I feel the same way about this as I do with Gibraltar. Keep it British for as long as the population feels they are British.

Gibralter has no been in British possession longer than it has Spanish.

[tibilicus]

The Argies know if they try anything they will just get kicked into touch again. It's just a lot of talk, their sovereignty claims are weak and really invalid.

[naut]

Gibralter has no been in British possession longer than it has Spanish.

Yes. I was alluding to the 2002, Gibraltar sovereignty referendum.

Additionally the Argie government is using this to avoid addressing the internal problems they are facing. Nothing like a bit of nationalism to get everyone's mind off the real pressing matters at hand.

[Furunculus]

Yes. I was alluding to the 2002, Gibraltar sovereignty referendum.

np.

funnily enough, of the 194 years that the state of argentina has existed it only actually held de facto sovereignty of the falklands for the first 17 of them.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Let 'em have it, I say.

Why the brits feel they can own a piece of land on the other side of the globe is beyond me, really. It's closest to Argentina, and as such it's appropriate for the islands to belong to Argentina.

But I guess the Brits need something to remind themselves of a time when other nations actually cared about them....

But...HoreTore, what about the right of a people to determine their own destiny?

The Falklanders want to be British.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Argentina honest to God believes it has a good claim to the islands. They just delivered 600 kilos of documents to the UN.

Me, I must say that of all the disputed territories in the world, Argentina's claim to the Falklands is amongst the weakest. It is based on several dozen Buenos Aires fisherman having a semi-permanent camp on the islands in the early 19th century. Reinforced by the idea that the islands should be Argentinean because they are closer.

Oh, oh, the delusions of irredentism. That sense of amputation, of incompleteness, the idea that there can be no national contentment until the lost territory is regained. Never mind that Argentina has only been in possesion of the islands for little over a decade, during which they were little more than an extremely remote station, while the entire southern half of Argentina was as yet unexplored and unsettled.

The Malvinas are a central element of Argentinean nationalism, even identity.

I think Argentina has a sense of national unfullfilment, of national shortcoming. Argentina has never quite lived up to its promise. A century ago, it was richer than Norway, poised to be some sort of Canada. As they say,'Italians who speak Spanish and think they're British'. It ended all too soon. Stagnation set in, its middle classes forever under threat, the typical South American society of a very narrow elite and poor masses developed. (Be warned, US. The same mechanism threatens your society). Melancholy as the national sentiment developed.

When one enters Argentina, the first thing one sees is a large sign that says: 'The Malvinas are Argentinean'.

Let 'em have it, I say.

Why the brits feel they can own a piece of land on the other side of the globe is beyond me, really. It's closest to Argentina, and as such it's appropriate for the islands to belong to Argentina.

But I guess the Brits need something to remind themselves of a time when other nations actually cared about them....

I say you give Argentina the Svalbard Islands instead. Just why should you imperialists own these islands anyway.

While we're at it, Hawaii to Korea, Réunion to India and Madeira to Senegal!

[HoreTore]

Just why should you imperialists own these islands anyway.

We don't.

As Svalbard is about as close to Norway as it is to Russia, we co-own it with the russkies. You see, civilized people are capable of sharing their stuff

[Louis VI the Fat]

We don't.

As Svalbard is about as close to Norway as it is to Russia, we co-own it with the russkies. You see, civilized people are capable of sharing their stuff

That's because there is no oil near the Svalbard.

Will you share your oil rich North Sea possesions with the UK then? Because this is what Argentina is asking of the UK at the moment.

[HoreTore]

That's because there is no oil near the Svalbard.

Will you share your oil rich North Sea possesions with the UK then? Because this is what Argentina is asking of the UK at the moment.

Yes, with absolute equality to us Norwegians, just as the case is with the natural resources found there now. And there's plenty of coal there, and you've all had the opportunity to take part in the mining.

That's assuming oil will be extracted even if found though... Which doesn't sound very likely.

[therother]

Britain and Argentina did sign an agreement in 1995 to share any oil profits from the area. The Argentinians, under their previous President (husband of the current president), withdrew from that agreement in 2007, saying all the oil belonged to Argentina alone.

[Furunculus]

Britain and Argentina did sign an agreement in 1995 to share any oil profits from the area. The Argentinians, under their previous President (husband of the current president), withdrew from that agreement in 2007, saying all the oil belonged to Argentina alone.

"lol, then we'll keep it all then", has always been my attitude to that diplomatic tantrum.

[Louis VI the Fat]

All your oil are belong to the Argie

What insufferable insolence.

I say let Britain man their ships and set sail, and we'll move troops from the Crimea and land in the South. Show these upstarts who rule the world.


Wait...I keep forgetting I was born in the wrong century. Gah! To be born a 19th century imperialist.
What went wrong!?

[Beskar]

Is the Falklands a crown province like the Isle of Mann (Independent, but has the Queen at the top) ? or is it more directly controlled?

[Furunculus]

Is the Falklands a crown province like the Isle of Mann (Independent, but has the Queen at the top) ? or is it more directly controlled?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...as_territories