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  1. #1
    But it was on sale!! Scienter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    I don't think 'fate' brings people together. Chemistry does. Or lust. Or a friendship that turns into something else. I don't think there's one and only one 'perfect' person for everyone. If I had never met TinCow, we'd both be involved with other people. It's unromantic but true.

    I'm not well versed in the Bible, but I think that your friend is being naive if she thinks that God is going to cause her to cross paths with a man who is perfect for her. Passively waiting for the right man to come along is a recipe for being single.

  2. #2
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Quote Originally Posted by Scienter View Post
    If I had never met TinCow, we'd both be involved with other people.
    Ow! Tincow you forgot to chain it to the radiator bad idea, now we demand intimate details, say Scienter it couldn't have been that bad now tell everybody what you told me.

  3. #3
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    The love you feel is a combonation of genetic differences and charictaristices that you find suitable in a mate.

    So +1 on this idea

    Set up an elaborate 'sign from above'. She'll believe it was a sign from God. You will get married and live happily ever after. And if there is indeed an almighty God, He thus obviously meant it to be so it was a sign from Him in the first place.
    God never lays out a guide to dating and to assume he does in naive
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  4. #4
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    The love you feel is a combonation of genetic differences and charictaristices that you find suitable in a mate.

    So +1 on this idea



    God never lays out a guide to dating and to assume he does in naive
    ...but he did write a sex-manual. Odd, isn't it?
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

    [IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]

  5. #5
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    ...but he did write a sex-manual. Odd, isn't it?
    Sex is power.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  6. #6
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    ...but he did write a sex-manual. Odd, isn't it?
    Sex-manual?

    Explain thyself to us heathens, christ-follower!
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  7. #7
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Sex-manual?

    Explain thyself to us heathens, christ-follower!
    Well, more like classy porn really. Surely you've heard about the "Song of Soloman"?
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  8. #8
    Tovenaar Senior Member The Wizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    I seriously thought this thread was about the Matrix or some sort of Arthurian legend before reading the OP.
    "It ain't where you're from / it's where you're at."

    Eric B. & Rakim, I Know You Got Soul

  9. #9
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Ow! Tincow you forgot to chain it to the radiator bad idea, now we demand intimate details, say Scienter it couldn't have been that bad now tell everybody what you told me.
    Did you just refer to my wife as "it"?


  10. #10
    Tovenaar Senior Member The Wizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"



    etc
    "It ain't where you're from / it's where you're at."

    Eric B. & Rakim, I Know You Got Soul

  11. #11
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Yep, as many noted, there is a hefty amount of, well, sorry to say, BS in the idea of 'the one'. There are three main justifications for it, as far as I can think of on the spot.



    A) For one, romantic love, as nearly all of us likely already know, is a recent phenomenon. Sure, it has been around for as far back as we know, but it was never something that was actually practised, notwithstanding rare exceptions. Arranged and forced marriages were the norm. Societies were built on this idea, grounded deeper than any fundamentalist claims of the family as being the fundament of our society (which is true, but a family is far, far less necessary than arranged marriages were in the old times) . Therefore, what we have is a recent phenomenon, which BTW, does not work well at all. The chance of a couple ending the first marriage in a divorce, in US, is higher than 60% (forgot by how much, I just knwo it is more). In contrast, it is a well-established sociological fact that arranged marriages are by far longer lasting, and even happier.

    The sociologists insist the lack of expectations as well as the higher rigidity brings the couples together, encouraging the solution of differences and problems. This is the same reason why cohabitation has such an adverse effect (although small in comparison to an arranged marriage), because it does the converse, loosening the importance of the marriage bond, and suggesting that there is always an easy way out. Whatever the fundamentalists may be, they have the right ideas (i.e. the ideas which keep the marriage together, and running happier) about marriage, down to the inequality of husband and wife, as much as I loathe to admit.

    Not to mention, the marriages that do end, usually do so before the first eight years - the first 4-7 years is the crucial point. This means that after eight years a family is on average, much safer. However, a couple may make it through the eight years with an ongoing conflict only to split up few years after that. Alternatively, an extramarital affair may occur - after all, close to 20% of all US divorces are due to infidelity, with nearly one out of four men cheating during their marriages.



    B) Secondly, true love does start out as lust - something once again pointed out numerous times before me. I will clarify, however, and point out that love is nearly entirely a chemical state of mind - even the long-term affection as a matter of fact. For example, lust, or initial love - whatever you call it, starts out with dopamine and serotonin. Another interesting fact is that a person in love exhibits prolonged significantly heightened levels of serotonin. Dopamine is the more instant-acting chemical while serotonin maintains your obsession over longer periods of time. Now, what the interesting fact I was going to say is that the state of the brain suffering from love is very, very similar to that of an OCD person, down to the levels of serotonin.

    Verdict? Love is a mental disorder. And it is, one cannot deny this - people do all sorts of stupid things under the influence of this drug. Finally, even the long term love is a result of chemical imbalance, namely the excess of the hormone of oxytocin. Oxytocin is presnt in all sorts of long-term attachments, including but not limited to lengthy marriage, sibling-sibling, parent-child, and close friend relationships.



    C) The third and final point is that love, long- and short- term, can be 'artificially' induced relatively easily given the right conditions. I cannot find the exact study now, but I did read in one of my sociology/psychology books that researchers put together a large number of pairs, (one male, one female) and put them to work on%2
    Last edited by Aemilius Paulus; 02-24-2010 at 01:21.

  12. #12
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    A) For one, romantic love, as nearly all of us likely already know, is a recent phenomenon. Sure, it has been around for as far back as we know, but it was never something that was actually practised, notwithstanding rare exceptions. Arranged and forced marriages were the norm. Societies were built on this idea, grounded deeper than any fundamentalist claims of the family as being the fundament of our society (which is true, but a family is far, far less necessary than arranged marriages were in the old times) . Therefore, what we have is a recent phenomenon, which BTW, does not work well at all. The chance of a couple ending the first marriage in a divorce, in US, is higher than 60% (forgot by how much, I just knwo it is more). In contrast, it is a well-established sociological fact that arranged marriages are by far longer lasting, and even happier.
    Once again......Correlation /=/ Causation. Arranged marriges don't end in divorice because in many socities where they arrange marrige divorce is illegal or taboo.

    Romantic love is also a very far reaching thing. It is most deffintley not a recent invention.

    The divorce rate is also nowhere near 60% and its dropping

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/divorce.htm

    The sociologists insist the lack of expectations as well as the higher rigidity brings the couples together, encouraging the solution of differences and problems. This is the same reason why cohabitation has such an adverse effect (although small in comparison to an arranged marriage), because it does the converse, loosening the importance of the marriage bond, and suggesting that there is always an easy way out. Whatever the fundamentalists may be, they have the right ideas (i.e. the ideas which keep the marriage together, and running happier) about marriage, down to the inequality of husband and wife, as much as I loathe to admit.
    In arranged marrige its not about happiness, divorce never enters into there pshyche. Its that simple. Besides plenty of people run out of these things. Ancient Indian literature is littered with myths of princess runing away from there husband to be.

    Not to mention, the marriages that do end, usually do so before the first eight years - the first 4-7 years is the crucial point. This means that after eight years a family is on average, much safer. However, a couple may make it through the eight years with an ongoing conflict only to split up few years after that. Alternatively, an extramarital affair may occur - after all, close to 20% of all US divorces are due to infidelity, with nearly one out of four men cheating during their marriages.
    Do you have a source for that?



    B) Secondly, true love does start out as lust - something once again pointed out numerous times before me. I will clarify, however, and point out that love is nearly entirely a chemical state of mind - even the long-term affection as a matter of fact. For example, lust, or initial love - whatever you call it, starts out with dopamine and serotonin. Another interesting fact is that a person in love exhibits prolonged significantly heightened levels of serotonin. Dopamine is the more instant-acting chemical while serotonin maintains your obsession over longer periods of time. Now, what the interesting fact I was going to say is that the state of the brain suffering from love is very, very similar to that of an OCD person, down to the levels of serotonin.
    Mostly correct information. Do you have a source for your OCD=love claim?

    Verdict? Love is a mental disorder. And it is, one cannot deny this - people do all sorts of stupid things under the influence of this drug. Finally, even the long term love is a result of chemical imbalance, namely the excess of the hormone of oxytocin. Oxytocin is presnt in all sorts of long-term attachments, including but not limited to lengthy marriage, sibling-sibling, parent-child, and close friend relationships.
    Love is the result of the biological imperative to reproduce, you were right about the chemicals. Humans are inclined to mate with someone with the most gentic differences to ensure the best litter so to speak.

    The chemicals that get released are a necesary part of continuing the species.

    Same reason why an orgasm is so pleasureable.


    C) The third and final point is that love, long- and short- term, can be 'artificially' induced relatively easily given the right conditions. I cannot find the exact study now, but I did read in one of my sociology/psychology books that researchers put together a large number of pairs, (one male, one female) and put them to work on a physical assignment for two hours. Turns out the attachment created by merely working together caused most to feel attraction to the opposite of the pair, regardless of physical attractiveness differences (which were not too great). Quite a bit went on to date and a few even married. Alternatively, an even more effective strategy is working or even simply being together under frightening events (roller-coasters and horror flicks actually do count - hint hint for all the Orgahs dating the opposite sex).
    This is true. Of course one can feel a deep attraction for many people
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  13. #13
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Humans are inclined to mate with someone with the most gentic differences to ensure the best litter so to speak.
    Wouldn't that mean we should be more attracted to people of different races?
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  14. #14
    Guest Aemilius Paulus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Once again......Correlation /=/ Causation. Arranged marriges don't end in divorice because in many socities where they arrange marrige divorce is illegal or taboo.
    Aww, come on, you cannot discount all of statistics in that manner. It does not work like this. You are no expert yourself, either, to have the authority to say whether there is a statistical fallacy here. Professionals already examined the study and found its conclusions satisfactory. Parroting the same phrase over and over stops working at a certain point - although I do admit you had a very valid point about divorce taboos causing faulty correlation - a point which was considered by the researchers as well. Arranged marriages work, and that is a sociology 101 fact, and not just a bunch of studies or obscure facts. The evidence is too overwhelming - mainly the statistics, which differ very significantly from the average society based on romantic love. I am aware of the taboo on divorce in those societies, but once again, if you read more carefully, the marriages are overall defined as more successful. Jesus, I should not even be arguing this. You are still in the Uni - go to your resident sociology/psychology professor and ask him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Romantic love is also a very far reaching thing. It is most deffintley not a recent invention.
    You failed to read my qualification. I said so myself, that it is not a recent invention - the most ancient myths mention plethoras of love stories. No, my point was that romantic love was never practised on a cultural scale. There were always a number of ramifications which led to what is usually termed as an arranged marriage. Now, I cannot speak for every single society, but at the very least, the civilised societies did not feature romantic love as a valid method of marrying off the daughters. I am pretty sure the Minoans were not an exception to that either, despite their somewhat matriarchal culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    The divorce rate is also nowhere near 60% and its dropping
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/divorce.htm
    Gah, did you even read my post? So far, all the things you have said show more misunderstandings on your part as opposed to possible holes in my argument. Not to mention, you really misused that statistic there. That is the divorce rate per 1,000 people, meaning all people - people who die early, children, elderly, mentally retarded, incarcerated individuals, etc, etc. That divorce rate does not even discriminate between married and non-married persons. But that is fine if you expected me to divide the latter statistic by the former. Even if you do that, you will get 50% (rounded from 49.something) total divorce rate in proportion to the total marriage rate.

    However, I am not done yet. Due to the fact you seemingly did not read my post, you missed out an important qualification - namely, the one where I pointed out the divorce rate of over 60% is found in first-time marriages. ('The chance of a couple ending the first marriage in a divorce, in US, is higher than 60%' - AP). Therefore, almost precisely half of the US marriages end in a divorce, but the second-time marriages fail at a significantly lower rate than the first-time ones, which answers for the >60% statistic. Since second marriages are quite relatively common in US, my qualification had a crucial effect.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    In arranged marrige its not about happiness, divorce never enters into there pshyche.
    Hmm, an unsupported assertion... You do not think that factor, namely the factor of the divorce taboo never crossed the minds of the sociologist researchers? At least one study, (but undoubtedly at least several more analogous studies existed) I remember, focused on parent-arranged marriages in the Western society. Variables were taken into account.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Its that simple.
    Nothing, especially on such large scale, is that simple. Logic, stereotypes, cultural assumptions, guesswork, and 'common' sense do not substitute for statistics emanating from peer-reviewed scientific studies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Besides plenty of people run out of these things. Ancient Indian literature is littered with myths of princess runing away from there husband to be.

    You are joking me, right? You downplay my statistics in every manner, inquire on the sources, examine for variables/biases, cite the causation-correlation problem, nitpick (all of which is perfectly understandable) and now you say this??? Not funny. 'Cause ancient literature is a scientifically, statistically rigorous source. Without a doubt there are plenty of people who get the short end of the stick in such situations, but mentioning ancient myths is about as accurate as personal experiences. Not anywhere close to valid in the eyes of a sociologist, in other words. A historian has the license to interpret and cite such evidence as a valid support for his/her own hypotheses on the ancient societies, but a sociologist is no historian, not even close in this regard. Of all the things, why mention matters millennia-old? You do not think the treatment of women changed since then?


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Do you have a source for that?
    For the infidelity, that statistic is everywhere, as the statistics correlate adequately. If you wish to check it, do so, and believe me, you will not find lower numbers, at least not likely. The 1/4 statistic for marital infidelity is very conservative - not only because it is low, as far as other studies go, but also because its method of data collection is rather unique - 1/4 of the divorces were found to have been caused by male infidelity. This leaves out the millions who manage keep the affairs secret, who have not yet spilled the secret, and those who decided to stay together even in the face of infidelity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Mostly correct information. Do you have a source for your OCD=love claim?
    The quick answer would be the February 2006 National Geographic article 'Love: The Chemical Reaction''. If NG does not satisfy you, which is understandable, since it is no scientific journal, much less a peer-review one, it is possible to examine the sources cited by the article. But this is chemistry observations, and it is difficult to go wrong here - or at least in comparison to a very impure and subtle science of sociology.



    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Love is the result of the biological imperative to reproduce, you were right about the chemicals. Humans are inclined to mate with someone with the most gentic differences to ensure the best litter so to speak.

    The chemicals that get released are a necesary part of continuing the species.

    Same reason why an orgasm is so pleasureable.
    Yes, of course, I agree with that. Stimuli must be present to ensure the biological act of reproduction and the care for the offspring.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    This is true. Of course one can feel a deep attraction for many people
    Right. My point was that this attraction is arbitrary - in the sense that it is not so much the physical/personality traits that affect us, but the circumstance as well.






    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Wouldn't that mean we should be more attracted to people of different races?
    Heh, you are a sharp one, eh? You are correct, but the mechanism which ensures genetic diversity is not played on the personal level, but on the societal one. Well, mostly.

    We have the basic aversion to incest, which is the result of the Westermarck effect - which is the aversion to erotic attachments to the persons with which the subject has/had close contact with in the first few years of one's own life. Basically, it is the sexual desensitisation to the people in your family (including the extended one). This phenomenon is very much present in relatively small, close tribal-like structures, most notably the kibbutz. This instinct in effect shields the child from reproduction with the people he is close to - evolution presumed it would likely be one's own intimate genetic relatives.

    But really, on a larger scale, it is played out through the practise of exogamy, where one has to seek a mate outside of the tribe - and this is a societal pressure, because the genetics do not discriminate on such a macro-level (we are programmed to seek certain traits, but those traits are universally shared - we show no particular affinity for people with apparent genetic differences). This societal pressure, however, does not normally cause particularly asymmetric bonds, in the genetic sense. That would be too troublesome. In fact, just the opposite happens - the basic human personality trait of being comfortable around like individuals ensures that we do not socialise too much with people unlike ourselves. To sum it up, we are fine-tuned to where the chances of marriages to relatives are highly unlikely, but once that danger passes, we show no preference for genetic strangers.
    Last edited by Aemilius Paulus; 02-24-2010 at 03:46.

  15. #15
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tincow
    Alright, I'm growing tired of this. The role PM I sent you was edited. This is my full role PM. The bits I cut out from the other version have been bolded for your convenience:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
    Your role is:

    The Italian

    Fortunes made in no time are like shirts made in no time; it's ten to one if they hang long together.
    ~ Douglas William Jerrold


    Back home, you lived the high life expected of the son of a wealthy Genoese merchant. You were educated in the finest schools and knew nothing but the best of everything. Art, literature, mathematics, etiquette, nothing has escaped your knowledge. Some of your competitors may think otherwise, but you know the end of Genoa’s mercantile power is looming. The Mediterranean is no longer the hub of trade, wealth now flows from the Americas, India, and beyond. Hoping to found a trade house of your own, you set off to explore the opportunities of the New World. But everywhere you went you found the British, French, or Spanish in unassailable control of the markets.

    You were drowning your sorrows in one of the finer taverns in Charleston when the attack came. While all others around you were running for their lives, your financial mind came to an epiphany. The only part of the New World not controlled by Genoa’s rivals was right before your eyes: the Pirates. In the confusion of the sack, you slipped aboard the Presence, disguised as one of her crew. You were trying to determine how best to propose a mutually profitable trade agreement with the captain when those perfidious British removed the only man with the power to negotiate with you. Ever the innovator, you adjusted your goals accordingly. If you can gain control of the ship's stores and survive until the ship reaches Nassau, perhaps other pirate captains would be willing to entertain your proposals.

    Your goal: To survive, and to be the Quartermaster at game’s end. You may tell the other sailors whatever you wish to accomplish this mission, for this is the only way you can personally obtain a victory.

    Powers: As a highly educated man, you have skills that will serve you well during your time aboard:
    - You may investigate one person a night. Results may vary.
    - You may roleblock one person per night. In addition to this, you will also find out how much gold they currently have.

    You may do one of these two activities on a single night, but neither of them will earn you any treasure. In addition, you cannot perform the same individual action more than three consecutive nights. In lieu of this, you may also take part in the usual townie group activities (kill with at least 3 others, protect with at least 2 others) and obtain treasure. However, as you are concerned with wealth on a massive scale, the pittance available on board this particular ship means very little to you. Striking a trade agreement with the pirates of Nassau will bring you more wealth than a simple pirate could ever dream of.

    Base gold: 100



    It does not need to be immediately, but I will require promotion to the QM spot eventually. I will do anything for this. Share my investigation results, kill Crazed Rabbit together with you as per our secret night action clause, share those pictures of my wife I told you about.
    So Rabbit or my wife will be upset. Is that any of my concern? Sorry, but I have to look after myself. I know that this will remove my ability to kill at night, but I've got to try and achieve my objective.
    Ah, bummer. I thought I remembered TinCow referring to his wife as 'it'. Alas, he doesn't. So much then for my hopes of compromising him with my long memory and pesky large inbox.
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  16. #16
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Ah, bummer. I thought I remembered TinCow referring to his wife as 'it'. Alas, he doesn't. So much then for my hopes of compromising him with my long memory and pesky large inbox.
    Interesting, I have a large inbox as well, and my version of that PM seems oddly different.... Must be a forum bug or something.


  17. #17
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Trying to wriggle your way out of it, are we now?
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  18. #18
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Finding "the one"

    Quote Originally Posted by TinCow View Post
    Did you just refer to my wife as "it"?
    *English diplomacy on*

    It must be wonderful to be able to share things like the Backroom with your spouse.

    Now, back to the OP....
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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