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Thread: Egypt Anacrhonism
How out of date would it be to have some Egyptian specific elements to the Ptolemy Dynsaty?
I know for example Egyptians continue polygamy and brother and sister marriages, and that Egypt even though it's army looked identical to the standard successor state armies had a very unique look and culture around it, so I have a couple of suggestions which while not pretending it's 3700 BC like CA does should help give Egypt a unique and historical feel to it.
1. Increased fertility, you will never be low on generals and might get too many, balanced by making Egyptian Body Guards inexpensive?
2. The Ptolemy Family fought itself constantly Cleopatra first survived attempts by her family to do away with her, and in response used Caesar to destroy her own family. Family Feuding unless it is impossible could possibly be shown by large portions of your family dying whenever your faction leader dies, to mimic the family strife which often ended in death.
3. Allow portions of the Selucid Patrimony to revolt to the Ptolemy House, which effectively happened on more than one occassion, and allow portions of the Ptolemy Patrimony to revolt to Selucid rule which was also known to happen.
4. To mimic the problems with it's borders have Cyrene start with the KH instead of rebel, while not strictly historical it could make the Ptolemy position more closely resemble the problems facing Egypt in the EB time frame.
I know for example Egyptians continue polygamy and brother and sister marriages, and that Egypt even though it's army looked identical to the standard successor state armies had a very unique look and culture around it, so I have a couple of suggestions which while not pretending it's 3700 BC like CA does should help give Egypt a unique and historical feel to it.
1. Increased fertility, you will never be low on generals and might get too many, balanced by making Egyptian Body Guards inexpensive?
2. The Ptolemy Family fought itself constantly Cleopatra first survived attempts by her family to do away with her, and in response used Caesar to destroy her own family. Family Feuding unless it is impossible could possibly be shown by large portions of your family dying whenever your faction leader dies, to mimic the family strife which often ended in death.
3. Allow portions of the Selucid Patrimony to revolt to the Ptolemy House, which effectively happened on more than one occassion, and allow portions of the Ptolemy Patrimony to revolt to Selucid rule which was also known to happen.
4. To mimic the problems with it's borders have Cyrene start with the KH instead of rebel, while not strictly historical it could make the Ptolemy position more closely resemble the problems facing Egypt in the EB time frame.
I really don't see how this would help. Also the no.4 is a definitive NO. It's not just not strictly historical, it's completly ahistorical
EDIT:
Also on point 2;
that was not unique for the Ptolemaioi dynasty... All Diadochi factions had the same problems, and i bet other monarchic factions as well
EDIT:
Also on point 2;
that was not unique for the Ptolemaioi dynasty... All Diadochi factions had the same problems, and i bet other monarchic factions as well
In case of 4, it would be more realistic to give Kyrene to the Seleucids. Magas had an alliance with Seleukos, after all. The KH was supported by the Ptolemeans. This is presuming Kyrene is not turned into a faction (unlikely, but not ruled out as far as I know).
And I think 3 is hardcoded.
Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus:
And I think 3 is hardcoded.
the number 3 is created by the faction creator on descr region... maybe you want to suggest that ptolemy and seleukid should get flip-flop faction creator attributes?And I think 3 is hardcoded.
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf:
the number 3 is created by the faction creator on descr region... maybe you want to suggest that ptolemy and seleukid should get flip-flop faction creator attributes?
One faction would have to be the other's shadow faction. A major problem occurs when the shadow faction conquers the host faction. When that happens, the shadow faction becomes the host faction and would end the player's game. Additionally, it would mean that neither the Ptolemies nor the Seleucids would ever truly be conquered.the number 3 is created by the faction creator on descr region... maybe you want to suggest that ptolemy and seleukid should get flip-flop faction creator attributes?
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf:
the number 3 is created by the faction creator on descr region... maybe you want to suggest that ptolemy and seleukid should get flip-flop faction creator attributes?
Stupid of me, I thought he meant family members.the number 3 is created by the faction creator on descr region... maybe you want to suggest that ptolemy and seleukid should get flip-flop faction creator attributes?
You could just flip flop via script. You can give regions I think.
I think that the number of generals is also limited...
@ anubis
I know #2 wasn't unique to Egypt but it did uniquely become a legendary part of western lore during the EB time frame, as for the 4th I don't suggest that Cyrene was part of the KH but it was a major power which allied to the Selucids, and above all else the point is to make Egypt's position give a bit more of it's historical rewards and difficulties.
@ Ludens that does make more sense, although I did wonder about the rejection of Cyrene as a faction when I just recently read about it, is the rejection final because having Cyrene would be the ideal solution?
@ Cute Wolf
If it could work perhaps it should since the Ptolemy and Selucid Dynasty could very often get desertions from the other
I know #2 wasn't unique to Egypt but it did uniquely become a legendary part of western lore during the EB time frame, as for the 4th I don't suggest that Cyrene was part of the KH but it was a major power which allied to the Selucids, and above all else the point is to make Egypt's position give a bit more of it's historical rewards and difficulties.
@ Ludens that does make more sense, although I did wonder about the rejection of Cyrene as a faction when I just recently read about it, is the rejection final because having Cyrene would be the ideal solution?
@ Cute Wolf
If it could work perhaps it should since the Ptolemy and Selucid Dynasty could very often get desertions from the other
Originally Posted by Horatius:
@ Ludens that does make more sense, although I did wonder about the rejection of Cyrene as a faction when I just recently read about it, is the rejection final because having Cyrene would be the ideal solution?
AFAIK aware Kyrene has not been ruled out by the team.@ Ludens that does make more sense, although I did wonder about the rejection of Cyrene as a faction when I just recently read about it, is the rejection final because having Cyrene would be the ideal solution?
Originally Posted by Horatius:
@ Ludens that does make more sense, although I did wonder about the rejection of Cyrene as a faction when I just recently read about it, is the rejection final because having Cyrene would be the ideal solution?
Like I wrote, it has not been ruled out as far as I know. I don't have inside information: it's just my own estimate of affairs. Cyrene was ruled by a rebellious Ptolemid, not someone fighting for regional independence. So assuming he would have won, he would not have established an Cyrenean empire but simply moved his court to Alexandria and resumed the Ptolemean empire. Provided his Seleucid allies would have let him, that is.@ Ludens that does make more sense, although I did wonder about the rejection of Cyrene as a faction when I just recently read about it, is the rejection final because having Cyrene would be the ideal solution?
Yeah, I mean the starting regions on descr regions file (on the map files), will have their enemies' as faction creator, so everytime Seleukid province rebels, it rebels to ptolemy... and vice versa, except some certain region such as Alexandreia or Babylon and Seleukeia.... to made that things happened easier, you may also give insane fertility to some certain regions so they WILL popped up a lot of squalor because excessive population....
Yeah but having Marakanda rebel to Ptolemies would make no sense.
I think having Cyrene as a separate faction is somewhat of a leap of faith but it would certainly make sense gameplay wise. Would also help prevent sand wars between Ptollies and Carthage.
I think having Cyrene as a separate faction is somewhat of a leap of faith but it would certainly make sense gameplay wise. Would also help prevent sand wars between Ptollies and Carthage.
Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin:
Yeah but having Marakanda rebel to Ptolemies would make no sense.
I think having Cyrene as a separate faction is somewhat of a leap of faith but it would certainly make sense gameplay wise. Would also help prevent sand wars between Ptollies and Carthage.
The problme IMHO is that Cyrene would get crushed by one of the 2 factions, if the team doesn't find a way to stop the AI from having the Total War mind set. Also, Cyrene lasted for only about 20 years after the game starts as an independent faction. As soon as Magas died the Ptolies annexed the area. It would be fun to have this faction though, i don't think any other one has itYeah but having Marakanda rebel to Ptolemies would make no sense.
I think having Cyrene as a separate faction is somewhat of a leap of faith but it would certainly make sense gameplay wise. Would also help prevent sand wars between Ptollies and Carthage.
Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin:
Yeah but having Marakanda rebel to Ptolemies would make no sense.
I think having Cyrene as a separate faction is somewhat of a leap of faith but it would certainly make sense gameplay wise. Would also help prevent sand wars between Ptollies and Carthage.
The Eastern AS Provinces may have Baktria or Pahlava faction creator instead... Yeah but having Marakanda rebel to Ptolemies would make no sense.
I think having Cyrene as a separate faction is somewhat of a leap of faith but it would certainly make sense gameplay wise. Would also help prevent sand wars between Ptollies and Carthage.
Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin:
Yeah but having Marakanda rebel to Ptolemies would make no sense.
I think having Cyrene as a separate faction is somewhat of a leap of faith but it would certainly make sense gameplay wise. Would also help prevent sand wars between Ptollies and Carthage.
dude, the sand wars is all I live for these days, EB wise: few civilians, epic fighting with large armies, open fields of sand; that's the best. (no clown smiley-I really am serious)Yeah but having Marakanda rebel to Ptolemies would make no sense.
I think having Cyrene as a separate faction is somewhat of a leap of faith but it would certainly make sense gameplay wise. Would also help prevent sand wars between Ptollies and Carthage.
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf:
The Eastern AS Provinces may have Baktria or Pahlava faction creator instead...
That's not possible. You can have only one 'shadow' faction.The Eastern AS Provinces may have Baktria or Pahlava faction creator instead...
Originally Posted by :
dude, the sand wars
Ah, I can always recognise a fellow Arab!dude, the sand wars
Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus:
That's not possible. You can have only one 'shadow' faction.
I talk about "faction_creator" in descr_region, not about shadow faction That's not possible. You can have only one 'shadow' faction.
An Kyrene faction would be fun, also seeing that the map will be redone so much is possible. And there are more factions who are likely to be destroyed soon after the game like Pontos or Pergamon.
It would be an mix of Koinen Hellenon and Ptolemies with some local units.
So far we know 3 of the 10 new factions.
It would be an mix of Koinen Hellenon and Ptolemies with some local units.
So far we know 3 of the 10 new factions.
Originally Posted by Cute Wolf:
I talk about "faction_creator" in descr_region, not about shadow faction
Ok.I talk about "faction_creator" in descr_region, not about shadow faction
Is that still possible in M2TW though? I've never seen a city revolt to another faction to be honest, only to the rebels.
Originally Posted by Phalanx300:
So far we know 3 of the 10 new factions.
For some strange reason, this comment just got me all giddey. I can still hardly believe that we will be gettin another 10 whole freakin factions in EB2. That's just insane, and the sheer number merely makes the possibility of Kyrene actually seem likely.So far we know 3 of the 10 new factions.
Don't we know 4? Boii, Pergamon, Numidia and Bosphorus?
Originally Posted by Hax:
Ah, I can always recognise a fellow Arab!
ooh yeah!Ah, I can always recognise a fellow Arab!
but yes, its 4, not three of the new factions. unless you're me, in which case you know 5 of the 5, not 10.
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