May be true. If it wasn't for econ, I'm fairly sure I wouldn't have stuck around.

1. Avatar policy has been voted on a number of times, and though my head says recently, it may have been end of 07 when the last poll happened. The avatars are stuck in TW Themed. Community has voted each time to keep them that way.

2. It can be, but look at how much its been relaxed. When I joined, I could post in the entrance hall only. I had to wait 300 seconds (5 minutes) between every post. Between thread creation, I think it was like 2 and a half days.

3. I don't understand, are you saying that it makes it hard to come into an environment where everyone already knows each other and there is common opinions on stuff? I would agree, but I would also hope that we try to welcome the newer members, as the old Welcoming Committe did, and as many still do.

Mailman: yes. KLA? He certainly has the ability, but I see no reason why he should become a moderator. If he was inclined in that direction, I'm sure he'd post a bit more in that section, instead of putting his mod stuff in Parliament. If you have mod choice based on ability (like it seems you have done), then the entire structure would change...We'd have Prussian Iron leading the Frontroom, Tribesman leading the Backroom etc etc

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Yes, i know. But this is precisely the point. The conservatism of the community evidently won't be overcome by the community. It needs a bold move, by the administration/staff, assuming of course they judge that such a move is desirable. However "judge" is the keyword. If the org community thinks that this should be treated as a matter of preference, then the current avatar policy may as well stay. However the point is that its far more than that. It is a matter that affects accessibility as well as other things. As such it has to be rethought on that basis, rather than aesthetics only.

To be honest, the ability to edit for junior members is at the centre of this one. Almost all of them seem bewildered at the fact to various degrees (it adds to the embarassment and stress of the newby, especially for first timer and young people), as well as to the fact that they are under "supervision" by mods in order to be awarded membership status. I think this one being taken out would go quite some way towards bringing down accessibility barriers.

The environment is precisely the great attraction and strength of the org. The good things about it are that its close knit, mature, having evolved through true fit and over some time, and that it has certain characteristics, admitedly pluralistic but characteristics nevertheless. The bad thing is that the reception and integration processes are quite detailed and slow - hence the close knit. The org lacks dynamic communities within the community as of late (with the notable exception of the EB community), and as time will go by it may well lack more if the demographic trend continues.

Maturity is also a large part of it. Warman was a good example. He had been accepted, given chances and treated nicely and fairly and yet because of that (and not despite) he was unable to integrate because he didn't had the potential to reach the level that would have been acceptable (at this time of his life). Warman behaves far more reasonably in certain instances in the twc, especially when among more immature members than he. This would have been an impossibility here, and so Warman is still to this day - believe it or not - lurking around the org and digging out for supporters, in order to stage his comeback. In short, what has been asked of him, was impossible to him at least for many more years to come, creating in essence a love/hate relationship from his side to this place, because he was implicitly asked to become an "orgah", while the best he could realistically do (and everyone knew it) was a caricature of an orgah. The expectation was unreasonable, and the result predictable. Admitedly Warman;s case is extreme, but it contains a truth; that the org does not have a place for various types of member. It has a place for a certain type of member - that which is akin to what we are here or to the type of member that is willing to become something very much like what we are here. The sieve holes are a little too small, especially given the fact that new tws are adressed to younger players.

Another example is the aforementioned issue about the moderation of teh redoubt - again a community within the community was judged with criteria that would have been valid in the "core" parts of the org, the frontroom, the gameroom or the parliament (or any other sp subforum). That was a mistake and the consequences showed. Whats happening in the reception and integration course of new members as a whole is a similar type of thing. The idiosyncracies of communities within the community are in fact discouraged, hence the homogeneity. Homogeneity however brings eventually lack of tension (harmful and creative) and eventually (lack) of pluralism. The environment finally stagnates.

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Warman...I don't want to bring that back up. inb4 lock etc

But I disagree that the person must fit. If it was that rigid, you wouldn't have people like PI, or me when I started. Or even now.

As for your last paragraph, in my current state I don't understand most of what you said and so I shall not respond to it.

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In fact you and PI are among the few new/young members that "managed" to fit. You in particular are still in the process imo.

As for the last paragraph, i am indebted to your shortsightedness ;)

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I share a slightly different opinion on Warman. My ghostly account in the TWC is perhaps kept alive because I discuss with Warman various ingame issues. We are very different (if not totally opposite) and that's perhaps what gives charm to our communication. With the suitable approach, he can give a lot to the Org. It is not necessary to agree with everything he says, of course. But more understanding and tolerant. People grow up and change and eventually, this happens with him. I really hope he will return soon and I really hope his impetuous nature won't bring him trouble again. But he certainly deserves a chance. And yes, perhaps we need slightly more impetious people (slightly!)

I would also express my view that permament bans should be in very very limited numbers.

I also think Kage is right. Gollum also has some point as well. Things are changing. The future of the Org. should no longer be tied only with the TW games, I think. We can continue the policy of enlightened absolutism and there is nothing bad in it. I also despise the reputations, perhaps because I never aimed to be popular. But apart from that, I support the changes.

The modifications of the profile were funny but I believe they were temporarily postponed after the update. But a slightly more liberal approach won't harm as well, though trolling should not be tolerated. And once again, the TW alone seem not to be a viable option for the Org. anymore.

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I for my part don´t come here so often any more b/c I do not play mafia games.

As soon as I click on new posts "half" of these are some sort of mafia this, or mafia that. I was used to interesting discussions about history / TW games [esp. EB] and sometimes soccer discussions. Well, I am not the Alpha & Omega of this forum, so just my 2 cents.

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You calling me young? I joined here on *insert join date here* and i was...15. I am now 19. I have to grow up some time, I guess?

And I'm totally older than Beefy. And maybe GH as well, I forget.

Would you believe that my mental capacity is so low right now that I don't understand what you are saying with that second line?

Bans: I don't know of a single perma ban. Warman's ban is only for a year. Plus any extensions added on (if there are any, and if it works like that)

I completely agree that the org needs to accept more games than just Total War, if we want to grow. The simplest expansion, the Paradox games.

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Funny that.
Asian people thinks I'm in the late 20s.
Europeans thinks I'm still a grade 10ner

That is the current situation. But we could easily over come this with the quantity and quality of our members

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Does this mean I'm considered an "old member"?

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I haven't got the time to look through everything on this thread, but this caught my eye. The problem with this idea is that you seem to assume a disconnect between staff members and forum members. Staff members are forum members first and we are responsive to the will of the forum more so than we are our own whims (we are also incredibly collaborative behind-the-scenes, far more than I thought before becoming part of staff). Such a bold step that you think is needed (probably correctly) would go against this ethos and I, for one, would be uncomfortable with staff members overwriting the will of the community just because we think it is better for the community.

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I dont think it would hurt asking him. He doesnt seem to post much at all in any site outside his own hosted mod area. Doesnt make him any less capable modder and a nice person. Other then this i completely agree with you on that if Org would expand to other games, which i would see as positive as many of the Orgahs have also moved on from TW. The Paradox games would be obvious group of games to do so.

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No it doesnt. I disagree with some of his posting methods, but he seems to have changed that anyway.

Anyway, moderator selection is a secret and mysterious thing.

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