Whats happened to this forum?

[pevergreen]

In that case I will never become an accepted member.

IMHO, the awards are part of the problem. They encourage clique-iness

How so?

CoH is the most distributed award, any of you could go get it now. Writing Contests/Photography/History/Screenshot etc are based on the contests that happen.

Ignoring the old MP player of the month and STW era stuff.

HoF. Thats pretty much it.

How is the Hall of Fame encouraging a clique to form?

I havent discovered a hidden subforum and become best friends with other people.

Are the moderators a clique? I'd say no. Apart from the mod subforum, but thats needed anyway.

Are senior members? No, apart from a silly Super Exclusive Senior Members only club. That has like 7 people in it and nothing happens there. Plus its a social group, with brings me to:

The only thing I can think of on this board that encourages people to form their own groups and avoid other parts is: Social Groups.

[TosaInu]

In that case I will never become an accepted member.

IMHO, the awards are part of the problem. They encourage clique-iness

Where to draw the line? There was a short phase back in 2002 when I became administrator, where all accounts were equal. I don't quite remember whether I also hid the postcount, but I do remember we had silly strife about that before: "So you think you're l33t, because you have 500 more?' Stupid hostile ad hominems about yellow being better than blue instead of constructive discussions, laughs together and sound interactions.

The outcries about this communism were big. People want to be different and more, until the other has something else that doesn't suit their own views and then silly arguments about it pop up left and right.

It's right that the social groups have far more potential to create cliquishness than HOF awards. Yet, none of them warrants it and people are bigger than those trivialities? Or not?

[pevergreen]

Yet, none of them warrants it and people are bigger than those trivialities? Or not?

I do believe so, even through all the 'strife' the org has gone through. People have risen above it and continued on contributing to the org.

Or they've left.

But sometimes they come back.

[Gregoshi]

In IMHO, the awards are part of the problem. They encourage clique-iness

Funny, we were just talking about that the other day over champagne and caviar in the Awards Lounge...

As to some of the points discussed:

1) It may be time to drop all restrictions on new members, at least for a trial period and see how it goes. There are so few restrictions (editing and Backroom?) on the accounts now, why not? There were/are reasons for it, but despite the intentions, the system seems to be seen as a "guilty until proven innocent" thing. Perception is reality.

2) A re-examination regarding the direction of the Org is a good thing. However, we don't know if the staff has done this already unless they open up the discussion to the general membership. I see no problem with staying with TW, but us of the old guard have to accept that the game has changed from STW/MTW and need to cultivate the fans of the newer releases. An appropriate moderator is not the key other than having their hand on the pulse of that particular community. A mod is a mod - not a cheerleader.

3) In my experience, the selection of moderators is essentially based on maturity - showing good judgement in posting on sensitive issues, not trolling, avoiding troll bait and generally conducting themselves as good patrons. Active participation helps too.

4) As for limitations on what can be discussed, that is based more on how the topic is handled by the membership. Guns and abortion were banned topics long ago because they always ended in flame wars. A couple of years ago, it was decided to give them another try and this time around the discussions were handled much more maturely by the membership, so they are no longer verboten. Community wars (multiplayer, clan-based mostly) are off limits because Tosa and the staff doesn't want the Org to turn into a battleground for such games. The bottom line is that they want to Org to be a nice, fun place to visit. Any discussions that disrupt that turn into off limits topics.

That's my two cents.

BTW good topic and interesting discussion by all.

[Centurion1]

i think you should have to get permission for backroom. Many of the discussions in the TWC put the backroom to shame in the immature category. And its not like a real screening anyway.

[tibilicus]

Where to draw the line? There was a short phase back in 2002 when I became administrator, where all accounts were equal. I don't quite remember whether I also hid the postcount, but I do remember we had silly strife about that before: "So you think you're l33t, because you have 500 more?' Stupid hostile ad hominems about yellow being better than blue instead of constructive discussions, laughs together and sound interactions.

The outcries about this communism were big. People want to be different and more, until the other has something else that doesn't suit their own views and then silly arguments about it pop up left and right.

It's right that the social groups have far more potential to create cliquishness than HOF awards. Yet, none of them warrants it and people are bigger than those trivialities? Or not?

Ah, a .org commune. let me guess, it should of worked well in principle but didn't work in reality?


I actually think the clique-iness of the .org is less than it used to be. Back in 2005 when I first joined, a lot of the moderating staff were members who had been part of the old Shogun/medieval community, in particular the multiplayer community. From what I gathered this was more so before I joined and prior to what I would imagine was either 2003 or 2004 most of the moderating staff were linked to this close knit community in some way. I wasn't around when it was like this and I only saw the tail end of it if you like, but some people saw this as a type of clique.

From about 2005 onwards though a lot more moderators were chosen from different areas and this old community clique kind of faded away as people left the .org or retired their position for whatever reason. Indeed, I don't really see there being a clique any more. I guess it could seem like there still is a clique but I would put that down to the size of the .org more than there being a kind of sub-community.

[Peasant Phill]

We can talk all about measures on how to improve the recruitment of new .Orgmembers as much as you like but until there are definite indications about the reasons for our diminishing and aging (meaning fewer new members) membership base, those measures will just be blind acts.

Do other TW-based sites also have the same problem? => maybe the fan base committed enough to contribute to forums has shrunk (in which case it's out of our hands)
What do still dynamic TW-based sites do differently? => that's the measures we're now discussing but a more systematic approach may prove more fruitful
What changes has the internet undergone since the start of this forum that may make the .Org not desirable for the large base of players base of total war games

Only when somebody can come up with good answers to these questions, only then can a constructive and fruitful debate take place imo.

[Tellos Athenaios]

@Centurion:
That used to be the case. “Backroom” is still a special Member Group (just like Europa Barbarorum is) which gives you access to associated forums. Which in turn means only “Europa Barbarorum” members should be able to visit EBH and only “Backroom” members the Backroom.

However at some point the forum staff decided they'd like more souls in the Backroom and extended membership to automatically include every member. Backroom is still invisible for people not logged on as a member though.

[TosaInu]

Hello Tellos Athenaios,

I think we only auto opted people in when we created it, in other words, already existing members became member there right away.

[Centurion1]

yeah tellos you have to apply now. its pretty automatic i think but you still have too.

[edyzmedieval]

Very interesting thread I must add.

With my 5th year of membership slowly coming along, I feel the need to say that during my first two years I had some amazing times on the Org.
Funny to say, but it was a very lively board with lots of interesting people and I learned a lot from this place. I even met one member from the Org in real life!

Bottom line, and sorry for my short post, is that we eventually have to move on. I have to move on as well - I was in secondary school when I joined, now I'm less than one month away from finishing high school. Times change, you have to move on. I do hope the old guard stays along, because the Org needs to preserve its identity.

I for one will certainly be here.

[gollum]

Centurion1: pardon me, but i don't understand your point; i don't think i ever said that to be "accepted" means getting awards. Awards are a form of recognition and have nothing to do with acceptance.

In regards to Subotan's point about the badges/titles of Senior Member and awards, i personally find them harmless and beneficial in certain ways. Certainly worth having around imo. And the org awards have nothing to do with cliques as far as i know.

[Subotan]

I was talking from the perspective of a new member. Of course, I'm probably talking rubbish, but that's a possibility which should be taken into account.

[Centurion1]

what im asking is when gollum does a member become accepted into the .org community overall i think the .org is very welcoming. look at young nerd hes already being embraced.......... lol.