The Komatai Toxotai we see in the video, will they have spears, too?
Swêboz guide for EB 1.2
Tips and Tricks for New Players
from Hannibal Khan the Great, Brennus, Tellos Athenaios, and Winsington III.
Oh man, a Central-European celtic faction...oh man I don't want EB2 to be released, because I won't finish the university either. ;o
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Finished essays: The Italian Wars (1494-1559), The siege of Buda (1686), The history of Boius tribe in the Carpathian Basin, Hungarian regiments' participation in the Austro-Prussian-Italian War in 1866, The Mithridatic Wars, Xenophon's Anabasis, The Carthagian colonization
Skipped essays: Serbian migration into the Kingdom of Hungary in the 18th century, The Order of Saint John in the Kingdom of Hungary
I've not looked at all the pics or the tool yet because my connection is having trouble with loading it all. Oh, how the EB gods taunt us. The video looks great- I especially love the jostling crush of the melee. And the officer/signifer's helmet :)
Is it me or do the units switch between two shield positions? A vertical shield (I'll call it 'closed') position, like we are used to in EB1 and a horizontal 'open' position. Do these mean anything (e.g. is the open position a more aggressive stance, while the closed one is defensive) or are they simply two equal options for the engine to choose from?
EDIT: Ah, missed that bit, bobbin.
Last edited by Maeran; 03-03-2010 at 00:03.
No, its just that the animations are not finished yet.
I don't think it is, have a look for yourself.Disclaimer: The General/FM models and the animations (namely the shield positioning) are still WIP. In some places the video is "choppy" due to video-capturing problems.
Last edited by bobbin; 03-03-2010 at 00:07.
Fantastic! The Units look incredible and I cant wait to conquer northern italy with them or having them stop the sweboz Ki rushes^^
Still one of the parts I was happy to read the most was the part about celtic language, esspecially this:
First, and perhaps most important, Gaulish is primarily a reconstructed language. There are not enough surviving records of the language to become 100% certain on certain aspects
Many people taking the languages in EB so seriously, but I think you should not do that and appreciate the incredible hard work of the language reasearchers for what it is.
Actually, they are not random. In the descr_skeleton it's possible to define the distance at which the secondary weapon is drawn. So, they will charge with the spears and after the impact, they will gradually switch to the swords, because they are defined to be used at a shorter distance. However, you can always force the primary weapons again during the melee.
So, yes, the Argoi will use both spears and swords.
Watch the next 2 previews and you'll get the answer
We didn't include sound because we wantd to maximize the length of the video. The other reason is that we're still integrating the voidemods, so we will only have sounds when the warriors speak their real languages. Possibly the next video will be shorter...
No. The Komatai Toxotai use a sica a secondary weapon.
It's not a signifer. It's a carnyx (celtic horn) and if you watch the video closely, the carnyx-bearer actually blows the horn when the unit is ordered to charge. The carnyx sound will come next.
EDIT: look at video position 4m:03s to see the carnyx animation.
Last edited by JMRC; 03-03-2010 at 02:02.
"Death Smiles at Us All,all a Man Can Do Is Smile Back."
Maximvs Decimvs Meridivs, Commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, Iberian Gladiator.
THIS IS WONDERFUL. Now the Sweboz are not alone, the Getai gets a new (un)friendly neighbour, and the horrible horrible Romans have more potential Romaioktonoi waiting to kill them.
As for the Celtic voicemod, how different is Boii Celtic (if that's the term) compared to the sort that the Aedui/Averni or Lusotannan speak?
I think it says, that the celtic Voicemod while be different from the in Voicemod in EB so all the celtic tribes will have different names and voices. It also says that celtic is a reconstructed language so no way the Booi will have big difference to other celtic tribe in the voice.
Thank you JMRC for explaining it, i´m excited to hear that it is possible to have two weapons, it should add a whole new level of realism, as many troops carried both weapons
Oh and also, now that you say it, i somehow forgot (silly me) to mention the guy blowing the celtic horn (carnyx), when i saw it i was like WOW it can´t be true! And started imagining how epic would look when the horn sound and the unit charge! Amazing attention to detail indeed.
Last question, thought it don´t have to do much with the boii per se. I was wondering why the late era Argoi stop using plumes or other celtic decoration in the helmets, i suppose it might have something to do with more efficiency at producing helmets in mass quantities. It´s curious because for the romans its pretty much the same, with the hastati/principes and the legionaries, they start with a lot of decoration in helmets (like other italian tribes like samnites) and end up with simpler ones with no plumes or other decoration. Quite interesting to say the least.
Truthfully this is a very difficult question to answer. The only primary source of a Boian language are a half dozen names from a series of coins called Biatecs. These names are a little weird; Nonnos, Devil, Busu, Bussumarus, Titto, and Biatec or Biatex. We can also consider the sources for the so-called Noric language, which exists in only 2 inscriptions. The Ptuj inscription, for example, reads ARTEBUDZBROGDUI, probably 2 names, and which indicate a reasonable affinity to better known Gaulish sources.
So, we don't really have enough evidence to reconstruct a separarte Eastern Celtic language, nor are we really sure how different the various Celtic languages were at this point. It is important to note that differences in written sources does not necessarily indicate major differences between regional languages- none of these languages were literate, and so did not have a corpus of written material to impose regularity of spelling and style (something that has only happened relatively recently for English). The written sources of Celtiberian show some differences to Gaulish written sources, but it is always possible that whoever was doing the actual writing (chiseling) was not a native speaker**, and was adapting the sounds he heard to Greek (or whatever). There was no IPA phonetic alphabet- how an individual scribe wrote down a foreign language was basically up to him. Plautus, for example, wrote longish speeches in Punic, but he used the Latin alphabet phonetically to do so- so we shouldn`t expect that he is exactly correctly representing Punic spelling.
To bring this back to the various Celtic languages in EB- I, personally, am certain that there were many regional dialects and even distinct languages spreading from Britain and Iberia all the way to Anatolia- but I think that it is very likely that they were all more or less mutually intelligible- like Norwegian, Swedish and Danish, rather than German, Dutch, and English, to use a modern example.
Doing voicemods is a lot of work- and, as I said, we really don`t have enough material to do a Noric voicemod that`s very different from the other Celtic voicemods. We hope to revise the current one, but that is a long-term goal.
** Pure conjecture on my part. The inscriber could also be a native who learned some other people`s letters- and as a corpus of material accumulates, people learn from previous examples, thus developing a `correct` spelling.
Last edited by oudysseos; 03-03-2010 at 17:20.
οἵη περ φύλλων γενεὴ τοίη δὲ καὶ ἀνδρῶν.
Even as are the generations of leaves, such are the lives of men.
Glaucus, son of Hippolochus, Illiad, 6.146
yes we are currently adding them !In later stages will the carnyx-bearer actually make a horn sound when he blows the carnyx before the charge?
very glad to see a faction filling in the eleutheroi (sp?) gap in that area of the map, great job
from Megas Methuselah, for some information on Greek colonies in Iberia.
There just doesn't seem to be any evidence of massive divergence- to the extent, of course, that there is much evidence at all. And we do have to consider that personal names might well persist longer than other parts of speech. But still, the Italian Boii aren't reported as speaking a language incomprehensible to the Senones, for example. The most divergent seems to be Celtiberian, at least in its written form.
The truth is there are many equally plausible scenarios. One critique to raise to my minimal divergence theory is how then is language congruency maintained?
οἵη περ φύλλων γενεὴ τοίη δὲ καὶ ἀνδρῶν.
Even as are the generations of leaves, such are the lives of men.
Glaucus, son of Hippolochus, Illiad, 6.146
Its not exactly known why the Celts did away with some of the more impressive helmets, at least I have not read a theory on why. Honestly the older helmets before 1c. B.C. helmets appear much more spectacular than the later Agen Port style helmets.
In harmony what info Oudysseos mentioned, there is not enough attested Noric, or dialects of, to really give a certain picture on eastern Celtic, or at least what the Boii spoke. Chances are it remained rather close thorough the Celtic realms. Dialects are know, such as the Narbonensis (sp?) dialect of Gaulish which is rather well recorded, and shows some alternative ways to write and pronounce certain words. The Galatians must have had different words than what is noted in Gaulish, thousands of miles away, as a few words, writings, and the like from the east do not have a parallel in Gaulish dictionaries. Keep in mind that these dictionaries are not a couple pages, but hundreds of pages long and pretty extensive in the amount of terminology and variations of a word that are included form all over, not just France, but Britain, Wales, Germany, Switzerland, Northern Italy, the East, Austria, Celtiberian Spain, etc...
The language is the best part IMHO. Learning how these guys would have talked and some of the ways they said certain things is really interesting. I had to learn a bit of French to understand the dictionaries as all but one that are used are in French, but it was so worth it. I really hope that folks learn a bit form all this. The names used in the preview with the * denote a reconstruction that I used based on the terms.
Last edited by Power2the1; 03-03-2010 at 23:28.
amazing work ^^ so the naked spearman and gaesatae will most likely be one of their units considering their regions map and the batle of telamon
the lack of cavalery seems a bit troubling but i guess i will just have to wait for the other 2 previews (note i haven´t seen the video yet)
as for the boii empire one can remember brennus when he went to delphi who created alot of small celtic kingdoms in the balkans so the empire can refear to conquering the regions with keltic populations in it such as scordasci tyles transalpine gaul and ofc the alps (or even going all the way to galatia and reuniting the eastern celtic population into a powerfull confederation)
will the boii be able to build 2nd tier mines or just the basic mines ? i mean if they can build 2nd tier mines considering their previledged position to take over the alps and the balkans they will be in no time a true superpower with all the metals coming from the balkans and the alps and thus the richest faction in the game in less then 60 turns for a decent general (and all of this without the need for trading ports nonetheless)
one small remark ... lusitania and therefore lusitanian was not a celtic language
i got the boi right now lets see if the belgiums and the celtiberians will be included ^^ i suspect western europe will be one hell of a interesting place to be in only problem is that if the belgiums appear then the chattii won´t most likely
great preview i had a feeling the boii would be included!!! Cant wait to see if another or two more new celtic factions are going to make an appearance!!!
Noticed that the carnyx blower's helmet is a little odd:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I think I've seen the "horn" part before in a text that I have buried away, but I did find something that is similar:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I've not seen anything in regards to Celtic helmets with such a protrusion in the back however...
Can anyone share some info, or will that be part of an upcoming preview?
A little?! It's a freaking xenomorph with hundreds of matrioskas heads:
As a side not, that is not the carnyx for the boii which will feature a bull that has been done recently and it's the britsh carnyx that was used as a template. In conclusion each celtic faction will get they own carnyx.
Well this helmets are really insane... Had i've not seen the evidence that they existed, i would think it's a vanilla thing :)
Europa Barbarorum Secretary
Two cavalry units are shown in the preview.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
see this.as for the boii empire one can remember brennus when he went to delphi who created alot of small celtic kingdoms in the balkans so the empire can refear to conquering the regions with keltic populations in it such as scordasci tyles transalpine gaul and ofc the alps (or even going all the way to galatia and reuniting the eastern celtic population into a powerfull confederation)
Its debated a lot but little is known about the language, it was certainly Indo-European and the celts were the only indo-european tirbes in the area, it did have some noticable differences from celtic languages though.one small remark ... lusitania and therefore lusitanian was not a celtic language
Last edited by bobbin; 03-04-2010 at 13:28.
Wow i have just read the preview and wow. We will finally get a faction to the north of italy and wow they look good. Thank you so much EB2 team, i think i have just fallen in love with the Boii.
Ne
Many wuvs 4 EB team.
Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.
"Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009
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