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Welp, I've played all the TW games except Viking Invasion, Alexander and Napoleon, and in about an hour I'll play my first mod, a game of EB.

After it took four hours to d/l Rome Gold, another hour for EB 1.2, then after realizing I also need 1.1, another six (ugh) hours for that, and I'll be ready to go.

I'll try it on Medium first and see how many turns before I get wiped out. I'll probably try an Eastern nation first.

I'll let you know how it went.

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Hello Madoushi. I am certain that you will love this mod if you have a passion for history. I would advise you to start with a not so difficult faction before you get used to the different goverment types and the ways of recruiting.
Best of luck to you!

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Thanks, fraoula!
So, which factions are easier, and which are harder?

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The easiest faction to start with is Rome. You already have a good economy built for you, and yet your empire is small enough for you to easily micromanage everything. And your starting army includes high-quality units. And all you have to do to start with is conquer Taras and Rhegion in southern Italy, then make peace with Epirus. Then all your neighbours are Eleutheroi (Rebel) cities who won't attack you, so you can build your towns in peace and quiet.

Carthage and the Ptolemies (Egyptians) are richer than Rome, but their empires are larger and need more effort from you to maintain - the larger the empire, the more difficult it is to really understand the economy as a new player.

Once you're ready for a real challenge in fighting and economy building, try starting a Sweboz (German) campaign. Your only neighbours are 'peaceful' Eleutheroi rebels, so you don't have to worry about the AI attacking you. But your economy is a LOT weaker than Rome's, you only start with one city, and you will go into very serious debt to begin with, forcing you to learn how to manage your finances very efficiently. You will also need to conquer at least four towns with only your starting army! This is a fun campaign to start, with lots of tough fighting to do. And it won't be easy, but you'll learn a lot, even (or especially) if you fail the first time. If you succeed in balancing the Sweboz economy, and recovering from the initial debt, then you're ready for almost any challenge EB can throw at you.

I recommend beginners start on M/M difficulty (Medium Campaign difficulty, Medium Battle difficulty). The AI factions get no bonuses in battles, and they only get a bonus on money if their treasury is very poor.

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By far the easiest are Rome and Carthage as they have many ports which generate huge income and are not threatened until you start expanding.
For me the hardest is Pontos with second perhaps Hayasdan although Sabyn are pretty tough too.
You can see how hard the creators consider each faction in the faction selection screen right before you start a new campaign.
You shouldn't start with any steppe factions until you have grasped the managment of small income vs huge army upkeep or you will be quickly dissapointed.

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Kind of ironic as I always found myself playing Roman factions or Carthage in vanilla. XD
Still not sure how I unlocked Gaul and Carthage; I never managed to win a campaign before I got this comp and got lost in newer games.

Still.. not having to deal with rival Roman factions is good enough for me!

Rome it is! Off I go!
Thanks again, and I'll let you know how it goes.

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Hi Madoushi,

You might find this guide I wrote useful. Lots of others in the Gameplay forum too.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...r-new-players.

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You're meant to play it at M/M, so don't sweat it if you're being battered.

If you're as experienced as you say you are, you should have no trouble though. Just remember, you need to build a military occupation first after taking a city, then the highest government able, or if in the case of a choice between a type 3 or a type 4, pick a type 4 if it's a particularly unruly populace. Government systems were the hardest thing for me to get my head around.

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Actually, the best government to pick depends a lot on what faction you're playing. Rome can only recruit Roman heavy infantry (legionaries) in Rome itself in the beginning, so early Rome is very dependent on allied 'native' troops. So to begin with, Rome should build only Type IV governments initially in her conquests, so as to be able to build the highest level of native MIC barracks and be able to recruit the very best native troops. Only half of an early Roman full stack army would be 'real' Roman units, and the other half would be 'allies' - native units recruited outside of Rome (skirmishers, hoplites, Gallic spearmen, slingers, skirmisher cavalry, whatever is available locally).

Only with the Marian Reforms can Rome destroy her Type IV governments and replace them with Type I's, and start recruiting legionaries in cities other than Rome itself.

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I'd actually argue against the people who make the claim that Rome is one of the easiest factions. I would agree that it's the easiest in the first 40 turns or so, when things are just getting started, but until they get to the Marian reforms (a daunting 400 turns off), the Romans are heavily reliant on their weaker regional units (I say weaker because, for obvious reasons, the Romans don't get access to the more elite regional units that that region's own faction would have access to) and have a long supply train to keep their legions abroad well-manned. There's also the fact that the Romans have A LOT of regions to conquer in order to achieve their victory conditions and almost always will have to deal with either the yellow fever or the silver death. I'm not complaining, as it makes for a very fun gaming experience, I just want to point out that while the Romans have an easy starting position, things get MUCH harder for them once they leave Italian soil. I would even go so far as to say that when it comes to achieving victory conditions, they are one of the harder factions in the game. Having completed four campaigns I actually found the Arche Seleukeia easier than the Romani, once I'd gotten past the first 10 years or so. So Madoushi, don't feel compelled to play the Romans just because they'll be "easier." There are several non-Romani, non-Qarthadastim factions out there which aren't all that difficult. Why not try the Ptolemaioi? The Arche Seleukeia? A Celtic faction could be nice too. -M

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I would much rather play 40 turns, learn the game, and then move on to other factions, than start with a complex faction, struggle, be discouraged, and uninstall the game, never to play again.

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Thanks everyone!
Well, I finally got it working.

However, I made a cloned Rome folder for the mod as I've seen reccomended, but as I got Rome Gold through Steam, I had to remerge the EB Rome folder with the original. This might be a good thing for them to include in the installation directions of EBII.

So I'm only ten turns in, but I'm immediately impressed.
- I really like how spies have a high chance of success, even on cities you're at war with. Great stuff.
- The new unit models and animations are gorgeous. I thought I'd miss the bright colors of vanilla Rome.. not even close.
- The effect woods have is great. I've had enemy units pop up almost right under or flanking advancing units, making using cavalry and skirmishers for scouting and screening more useful.
- Diplomacy is awesome. I had no problems establishing ceasefires and trade rights with the Aedui, Makedonai and Koinon.
- I was discouraged by the numbers and elite cavalry in Taras, so I approached it cautiously, and was rewarded when they'd send out a few units at a time to harry me and I'd crush them, and despite their recruiting and shuttling some reserves over from Greece, I have the numbers and the heavy infantry to assault their castle outright.
- I'm still a bit confused about the different Government buildings. I build an 'IV' Roman Ally building in Arretium, and I'm not sure if it was the right choice, but for the cost and time involved and the benefits offered, it seemed most logical.
- I was really worried about the higher unit recruit and upkeep costs, but it makes each unit more inheirantly valuable, so I'm really warming up to it.
Far different from sending six stacks of Highlanders, Woodcutters and Peasants to slow down the Mongols for my stack of Knight to arrive like Medieval. XD
- I'm almost eager to try a Greek state now, but then again, I'm eager to try almost anyone.
- Titus, that guide was really handy, even if I'm ten or eleven turns behind schedule. :what:

Edit: Mul, you make some great points, but as vartan stated, playing as Rome just to get a grasp on how fundamentally different from any vanilla TW game EB is, with the freedom of being able to focus on one opponent at a time, experiment with buildings and get a feel for the pace of the game.
If I wasn't confident enough to send my Apni stack straight at Tars without softening it up first, how would I fare as Seleukia? :Smile:
(I'm sure I'd figure it out eventually, but I'm enjoying my Rome game, and I have all those other factions to look forward to.)

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Great to see you like the mod.

I would advise you - before you play Seleukia - to try to explore your immediate surroundings as the Romani a bit. You see: Arretium, Southern-Italy and Northern Italy are the rather easy parts to conquer and to get your hands onto. I for myself got pretty badly mauled when my Roman legions left Northen Italy for the first time. Said otherwise: you still have something new to learn when you'll attack your neighbours (whether Getai, Arverni, Aedui or Lusotanni) for the first time. :D


Some info about the different government buildings: they represent up to what way you're incorporating conquered territory into your Roman empire to be. Government 1 represents a total incorporation, while government lvl 4 represents merely an ad hoc incorporation or even little more as an allied region. The lower the governement level, the higher lvl factional barracks you're allowed to train, giving you access to elite units of your own factions. Early on, these will be triarii, Italian allied cavalry or even the fearsome samnite allies. You won't get however much local units. If you had opt for a higher goverement lvl, you would be allowed to build a higher lvl regional barracks (but a lower lvl factional barracks). Gone is the recruitment option of your legionnaires in your newly conquered territory, but you are rewarded with the access to some elite regional units. In Greece these can be hoplites or heavy cavalry for example. Deciding whether you want a high or low level of these governement structures comes down to asking whether you want to recruit regional auxiliaries in that settlement, or more factional units. As time progresses, and you'll reform your army, you'll gain the option to build lower governement levels in your conquered territory. All in all, you can't do anything wrong. But if you intend to build out a globe-spanning empire, you might want to opt for the lower governement levels. After all, they make recruiting (and retraining!) your Roman legionairs in your border regions possible. And as you'll notice, the further away from Rome, the more you'll need to retrain your units. ;)

good luck,

Andy

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That's a possibility as well - my point is, he doesn't need to play all the way through either the Romani or Qarthadastim campaigns just because he's new. Although I would still argue that there are others beyond those two which are reasonable for new players.

@Madoushi - re: the governments thing - you should definitely build the type 1 in Arretium, as well as the rest of Italy as well. You won't be able to recruit your faction's troops if you don't.

Hey, ultimately that's all that matters. Have fun. -M

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Man, these forums are so different from what I'm used to, layout wise. I keep clicking the Reply to Thread button by mistake after typing out a big long post, and editing a long post in this textbox can be challenging.

Since Aedui has Mediolanum, I'll probably be bumping into them first. I'll attack them if I see an opening, but I got a caesefire and trade rights with them, so it may make more sense to expand across rebel Southern Gaul, then swing around and attack Arveni, watching for a backstab from Mediolanum.

I was also contemplating something daring a naval landing at Ephiros. However, I forgot, I disbanded my 'navy'. I guess I could just as easily sweep down the Dardanelles. That might be a slick (or terrible) idea. XD




I suppose Italy is the only place I can build type 1 Governments? (otherwise I'd totally just build 3s and 4s in Italy and just drop a 1 as a beachhead whenever I began expanding into a new area.

I guess that would kinda defeat the point.

Anyway, I just got in. I'll probably play some more tonight, but first I have to try out this Bad Company 2. :D

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Madoushi a warm welcome to you.

I would build type 1's and 2's wherever possible. If neither are possible, I would sooner go with a 3 than a 4. With 3 you reap benefits of some factional as well as a lot of local troops. Type 4 is usually unnecessary most of the time, and the allied generals demand a hefty salary. Keep a levy garrison in your type 3's and you'll be fine.

I'm curious, as a Camilian era general, what are your armies currently consisting of? (i.e. how many of each unit type do you have in your current, standing armies?)

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Welcome Madoushi :)

I have to agree with Mulceber about romans being not always the best choice for a new player. as romani you are somewhat reliant on your reforms as they give you access to your factional troops for entire italy and beyond. thus it may be of use to first establish lvl 3 or 4 govs and tare them down later to replace them with lvl 1 or 2 (which si somethig many people do for roleplay reasons btw) to access regional troops early on and factional troops when they get available. plus lvl 1 also enables all of your neat and civilised buildings of highest level.

what about your finances are they over the top or just enough to keep the war efford up?

if you plan on switching in near future(thus before the reforms are supposed to happen) and still fear to be overrun by vast armies of the arche seleukeia or to have practically no infrastructure you could try one of the Greek factions(thus Koinon Hellenon, Macedonia and Epeiros) who are quite easy(that is economically) once you live through the first few years and expell one or both others from the greek peninsula.
when you're good with your finances you could consider one of the "barbarian" or even nomad factions.

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I've just remembered, I'm running a Roman Allied Legions mod by konny, which prevents me from recruiting Roman Camillan era legionaries from anywhere except Rome itself. In other Italian cities, I recruit Samnite Allied medium infantry, Bruttian Allied medium infantry, and Lucanian Allied medium infantry, which are a bit like Hastati, but use spears. These are just as good as Hastati, sometimes better.

I always install Type IV governments as Rome, but don't always buy an expensive Allied General to run the town - it's not always necessary, except in the really big cities like Syracause.

My early Roman consular armies (I always have two, one in the north, one in the south) are formed like this:

One of each type of Roman unit: One Family member, one Equites, one Leves, one Hastati, one Principes, one Triarii, one Accensi, one Rorarii. 8 Roman units, representing 2 Roman legions.

Then I add 8 allied units, representing 2 allied legions. To start with, I have to use the most basic units from my other towns: one Leves, one Accensi, and six Rorarii, which I use to represent 'Generic Italian light infantry'). When I've upgraded my native barracks, I can start recruiting Samnite Allied medium infantry, Bruttian Allied medium infantry, and Lucanian Allied medium infantry, which I use to replace the 'Italian' Rorarii units. Also Campanian, Greek or Gallic cavalry, which will replace two of the allied infantry units. Later, when I've conquered some towns, I can start recruiting Greek skirmishers and hoplites, and Gallic spearmen, Ligurian spearmen, and other native units.

My full stack is thus only 16 units. I prefer to give the enemy a fighting chance by letting their full stacks outnumber me.

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wut

And I was just giving a general rule.



Have you got rid of the giant trees, using the minimod? You'll want that if you're fighting Gauls.







Noo, you'll want a Type II, if you can get it. The higher the tier of government, the more investment is required to establish a stable regime over the populace. So in the long term, you'll reap more rewards if you build the higher ones.

Seleukeia's a bit insane, as everyone hates you. Be prepared to swap territory for time.

On another note it is so refreshing to meet a new member who doesn't make ridiculous demands that the EB Team should "fix" the diplomacy, remove the Sa'ba, or create Atlantis as a faction.

Ah, that explains your slightly odd post above.

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It's true that type I and II governments generally give you the most options in the long term, but the Romans are unique in that they cannot build factional barracks outside of type I provinces until the Polybian reform, and not outside of Italy until the Marian reform. Because of this regional barracks are more important, and type III and IV governments allow higher levels of the regional barracks. Furthermore, certain provinces offer good high-level regional units that make it worth keeping them as a type III/IV. For the Romans, the prime example would be the Brihentin cavalry (check the recruitment viewer: IIRC it's available in a couple of Celtic provinces).

I agree that working diplomacy is a strange observation. The diplomatic A.I. of R:TW is poor, regardless of the mod.

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Yeah don't be a moron like me and go straight to an Arche Seleukia campaign right after playing vanilla. I was completely lost what with all the new buildings, two types of barracks, 4 types of governments, fighting right off the bat with Ptolies, Pahlava, and Saka, about 40 different units I could recruit right off the bat over my empire, all the new traits for family members, 30 starting provinces (or something close to that), along with the fact that I had no idea where province capitals were when I moved my armies around in the vast eastern regions...

I gave up after about 5 turns and moved to the next best thing in my opinion. A Makedonia campaign which I found much more manageable. Although I must say battles were crazy hard at first since I was expecting units to break quickly like in vanilla, something my flanking cavalry found just wasn't the case rather painfully...

I lost a rather crushing defeat to Pyrhus about 6 turns in. Somehow managed to rally and beat back Epirus while I also subjugated the rest of Greece.

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These are the kind of defeats that forge brutality, vengeace, a fun campaign and eventually an empire. My Romans know exactly how your Makedonians felt. :)

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I think that's due mostly to the circumstances: when Rome starts out, they bump Epeiros off the Italian peninsula (sometimes even in the first turn), and then the Epeirotes always accept a ceasefire. Likewise, If you try to make ceasefires with the gallic factions before you've expanded, they'll accept it because they don't have any common borders with you. That's probably why Madoushi liked the EB AI. I'd expect that his opinion will change once his game gets going. -M

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Diplomacy shouldn't go the way you expect it to. That would just be boring. Unless you expect it to 'fail' all the time.

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Thanks everyone! Appreciate all the fgeedback and the interest.

First off, when I decided to build the IV in Arretium, I didn't understand what the differences were, I was going merely by
- the benefits/drawbacks in the textbox
- how much they cost
- how long they take to build.

So, from that limitation, Type II took six turns, cost 1600, and the only benefit was a %1 trade increase. Totally didn't seem 'worth it'. I wasn't even thinking about what units that would or would not allow. Sooo... now I know.

@Ca Pott

I'd have to check. So far, I'm ten turns in, I haven't lost any units. I've built a Princepe and a Hastati in Rome, Apni can only build Slingers, guys with shields and javelins but no armor or helmets (of which I've built three) and diplomats (just explaining this as I can't remember the name of that unit - one thing about this game, the names take some getting used to XD), one or two light cavalry from the province north of Rome, one or two slingers, and other than that, all the starting units.

I moved a Hastati and the cavalry from the garrison north of Rome down to help attack Taras, a pair of slingers in Capua to keep public order green, left all my generals except Gnaeus Scipio in their towns (so only Capua and Apni have no generals as I moved the one from Capua to Rome when Dentatus died) and everything else is down preparing to assault Taras.

However, I'm getting about 3000 or so mnai every turn, though I'm usre if I try to raise more units before Taras falls, that will go down.


@ Subotan

No minimods yet. I'm still trying to get used to a mod at all! However, if the trees are going to make life hell against the Gauls, I'll have to look into it.
So far, though, it's been addfing a level of uncertainty that I like.

Also, yes, I'm sure part of my being pleased about the diplomacy is just being rid of the Senate, and the abolishment of "No, sorry, you are at war with Carthage and Gaul and Greece... FOREVER!!!!!!! Better pray no one ELSE decides to hate you, too!"

And thanks, I like to think I'm a fairly reasonable person. And yes, I saw the Atlantis request. I lol'd. Maybe Rifts: Total War? :Grin:


@ Mulceber

You'e probably right. However as long as states I'm not touching act reasonably, I guess I'd consider that 'good diplomacy' in R:TW terms.


@ vartan

Diplomacy shouldn't be predictable, or even always rational... but even a madman should take a good deal when offered it. :D

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You are about to play the greatest RTS mod ever created in the history of RTS. Good luck, have fun, and learn plenty o' history!

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Ah, OK, ignore my comments about government then, at least when dealing with the Romans.

You'll need https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=112360 and maybe https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...-MINI-MOD-PACK! then. The latter isn't save compatible though.

No problem. I compliment people who deserve it, hard though some particular members of the forum may find it hard to believe.

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Well, first off, I had Arrentium and Ariminum backwards (how the hell did I make that mistake?)

Also I finally took Taras and Rh-...that other place.

Taras went horribly. I let them lure me into the city and cut off my cavalry and lost 500 of my 1200+ men, mostly cavalry and unarmored javlin infantry as my casualties, wiping out their 570 men. Totally unacceptable.

I leanred from my mistakes assaulting the toe of the boot, however. 1500 vs 700, with only two units of Roman cavalry, my General, two Princepes, three Hastati, three slingers, one Triarii, one Samnite Hastati and the rest javelin infanty.

This time anytime they tried to engage me in the streets, I sent a column with my Princepes at the front, Hastati behind, slingers behind them and would engage, then slip my cavalry and javelineers around back, neatly hammer and anvilling them, making sure my cavalry always hit their Hoplites in the back off a charge, then immediately pulling them back to do so again. As I expected, their General panicked and sent everything to try and catch my General and Cavalry from behind and relieve their units, but my cannon fodder javelineers kept theim back untill their Hoplites broke. I quickly sent my Cavalry down a side street, nd when he persued, I sent my column of infantry at him full charge. His remaining units turned, and as soon as they engaged, my Cavalry came crashing down on his back.

Only 200 casualties this time, less than half from cavalry. Which is good, since I'm a cautious General, I expect I'll be assaulting lots of cities, so I'd better make sure I learn to get it right. Now it's 267 BC, but as soon as I've retrained my cav and heavy infantry, Messala and Syracuse should fall pretty quickly. Also the Carthage garrison at Lilybaeum is practically nonexistant.. not sure if I really want to provoke them just yet, though. I'll probably thake those two cities and look northward. I'd like to take out some more rebals before Aedui and Arveni decide to expand. Sweboz is already doing so...

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Madoushi:

Be a true Roman. Don't worry about casualties. As long as you win the battle, that's all that matters. None of the patrician senators back in Rome really care how many of the plebians get killed, unless they're planning to use the issue to try and embarrass you in the Senate...

Unarmoured javelin infantry, 'Leves' in particular, are just fodder to soak up enemy missiles, and should be used (and abused!) accordingly. And they are from the poorest section of Roman society eligible for military service (poor Latin trash). Doesn't matter how many of them get killed, or if they rout screaming from the field - the heavy infantry will always win the day in the end.

Remember, plebs are like rats. They are as common as rats, as annoying as rats, as stupid as rats, as filthy as rats, and - their only good points as far as war is concerned - they fight like rats and they breed like rats! No matter how many die, there will always be more where they came from. There will always be another army to recruit.

Greek cowards might whine about casualties and talk fearfully of so-called 'Pyrrhic victories' - but for a true Roman aristocrat there's no such thing. There is only victory! In fact, the harder-won the victory, the greater the glory!

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@Madoushi - be careful about taking any city on Sicily - the mod is set up so that you have a treaty with Carthage forbidding you from taking any cities on Sicily. If you attack Sicily, it will mean war with Carthage. I would advise letting your economy develop first before going there. Oh and maybe taking a few more cities to the north, like Bononia, Segesta, Patavium, Mediolanum (after you take it from the Aedui, they should accept a peace treaty pretty easily) and Massalia. Maybe even a couple cities in the Balkans as well, if they're controlled by Eleutheroi.

@Titus - The Romans couldn't have said it any better themselves. =D -M

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