STW

[Brandy Blue]

I've been thinking for a while about buying Shogun Total War.

Two questions please.

I already have the Samurai Warlords download. Is STW different enough from SW to make it worth getting?

Is the Mongol Invasion expansion worth having, or should I just get the classic original?

Thank you in advance for your opinions.

[gollum]

Hello BB,
i am heavily biased towards the original version, however i do believe that the mongol invasion is worth having and playing (especially if one is willing and able to try different stats that make the SP game in the japanese and mongol camps more balanced). This however may cost you more because the combined edition (warlord edition) does not permit you playing the original; ie you have to buy them in seperate sets (that will cost definitely more).

And yes it is different in some aspects that are definitely worth it, imo. For starters the battle engine is slightly different - say in STW you cannot disengage units from melee and so match ups matter more (in MTW you can). Additionally in STW you have 4 turns per year, and the seasonal weather that goes with them. Also in STW you have the harvest ie collecting money only once per year, and the tax rate is adjusted for all your teritorries at once (you cannot set different tax rates for ind. terotorries). There are also atmospheric aspects like the throne room and the assassination movies that are unmissable for dedicated TWers like yourself imo.

In terms of balance, the SamWars team tried to recreate as far as that was possible the balance of the original. This can be also re-created in MI by altering the stats. I'll give you a link soon...



Link:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...old-unit-stats...

[caravel]

Hello,

Shogun is probably the best TW game by far (though I suppose it depends on what you like?). I also prefer the original (v1.12), for all the reasons gollum mentioned, but it can be tedious in terms of the campaign map functionality. Features that we now take for granted such as holding tab to see the colour coded province loyalty is not in the original - it was introduced in MI. Bribing is also absent as are the display of the general's stars. I can live without those last two, but the lack of the tab key function is a complete and utter pain.

Yohei

[Brandy Blue]

This however may cost you more because the combined edition (warlord edition) does not permit you playing the original; ie you have to buy them in seperate sets (that will cost definitely more).

Thak you both. I would like clarification of the above, please. Does the Warlord Edition allow me to play both periods (with and without Mongols)? If so, I can fix it with the original stats. If it allows me to play the Mongol period only, that is a more serious problem. I would need to buy the original and then the MI expansion if I wanted to play both periods.

[gollum]

It does allow you to play both periods yes. And you can fix it with the stats proposed - although some differences will remain. There are also some improved stats proposed for the Mongol Invasion campaign - the mongols are too strong. I think there is a thread in the Sword Dojo about it, and the person who knows most about it seems to be Orda Khan.



PS The remaining differences are the cost of buildings and the fact that the AI does not get money to build infrastructure when bankrupt and finally the inclusion of the manual pillage. In the original buildings cost quite a lot, and the economic aspect is far more challenging - unfortunately this can't be changed in the WE. Also the AI in the original will keep building infrastructure regardless of whether he has money (or hasn't). Last but not least the player can't manually pillage or disband in the original - these are not options - while in WE they are just like in MTW. I personally find that these make a significant impact in the game.

[caravel]

PS The remaining differences are the cost of buildings and the fact that the AI does not get money to build infrastructure when bankrupt and finally the inclusion of the manual pillage. In the original buildings cost quite a lot, and the economic aspect is far more challenging - unfortunately this can't be changed in the WE. Also the AI in the original will keep building infrastructure regardless of whether he has money (or hasn't). Last but not least the player can't manually pillage or disband in the original - these are not options - while in WE they are just like in MTW. I personally find that these make a significant impact in the game.

Hello,

I had forgotten these changes also. Yes it's true, the building costs were halved in the MI/WE Edition. It's also true that the AI clans no longer get infinite money and disband/raze was introduced.

STW/MI introduced many features that the AI simply can't use. This continued in MTW, with the addition of many more non AI features and probably to a lesser extent the newer games.

Yohei

[Brandy Blue]

Thanks for all the information, everyone. Now alll I have to do is make up my mind what to do.

[gollum]

If you are willing to buy second hand, then i would have thought that it makes very little difference price wise - you can get the original and the MI as an expansion. In this way you have all three: original jap. camp./MI jap. camps./MI mongol camp. If you go first hand for this option, the original game alone might be a bit costly (10 british pounds and sometimes more).

Alternatively you can get the WE that provides you with the latter two in one pack. Be aware that the WE should cost no more than 5 british pounds or there abouts. I saw some smart alecs selling it up to 20+ british pounds on the net.

Happy gaming - this is really a must either way, you'll love it.

[Brandy Blue]

Good point. I gather that the "gold edition" includes the Mongol invasion expansion. Does anyone know if it would allow me to play the original game as it was pre-Mongol invasion, or is is just like buying the WE edition?

[gollum]

Afaik, Gold and Warlord are the same thing ie they allow MI jap. camp/MI camp. and not the original. The only way to play the original is buy it and the MI expansion separately.

[Brandy Blue]

I just got STW today. When I tried to install it I got a message that I need a code which is in the white box on the CD case. I guess its not the original CD case because there was no code. Is there anything I can do about it?

[Jochi Khan]

hello Brandy Blue

Do you have a manual with it?
Look on the back of the manual. There should be a long white box at the bottom with a Serial No. in it.
This is the code you need.

[Brandy Blue]

Thanks for the suggestion, but no such luck. I got in touch with the seller. He gave me what he thinks is the correct code. I haven't had time to check yet. I'll let you know how I get on.

[Brandy Blue]

Problem solved. Thanks for advice.