KOTF sequel thread

[Zim]

This thread is to discuss ideas for the next PBM.

I'm going to keep this and the next post as space to add a list of new ideas as they come up, so people can catch up if the thread gets long.

[Zim]

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[Ibn-Khaldun]

Some ideas:

1. Non TW pbem game. (Europa Universalis? It's quite possible to play it in WotS/KotR/LotR/KotF format)

2. A new TW pbem game (ETW or NTW? Haven't played them though. )

3. A game similar to previous games but whit limited number of avatars(for active members). Other players (who don't want to or can't participate very often) will have avatarless characters.

[Cecil XIX]

I believe we should stick with RTW/MIITW. Not that I don't like Paradox Interactive or ETW, but I think the problems we've been having won't be solved by changing games. We need a radical new approach, something that's quite different from what we've done with the past. This is because I believe that after the Cataclysm in KotR, many veteran players such have myself haven't been able to deal very well with the obvious step back everything else since then has been.

There's one small thing that's also been a problem: RGBs. I've expressed my misgivings before, but I'm more convinced now then ever that they're a problem. It's understandable that we'd not want people to wait to get into the game, but not having RGBs has several benefits that more than make up for limiting our playerbase.

Firstly, it's only a problem early on in the game. The game'll give us Generals naturally as we expand to fill in the greater territory. Secondly, it causes us to expand too fast, because we've got a lot of players hungry for land and a lot of RGB to obtain victory on the battlefield. In KotR, we expanded by two provinces during the first term. In LotR and KotF, we took seven provinces. As a result we are much too powerful, too soon. Remember in KotR how we only conquered Milan and Venice? France, Hungary and Poland were never fully subdued, Poland never even lost Krakow! compare that to what we've done to the English, the Moors and Germans in short a short time in KotF. Finally, have an unlimited suppply of characters makes us value the characters we have less. This isn't true for everyone of course, but I think this is a major contributor to why we never had any abandoned characters in KotR, but tons in LotR and KotF.

That's why I think we should refrain from modding in RGBs. I can certainly tell you that I'll never use them again.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I agree that RGB's could be one of the problems why people lost their interest so soon. I noticed the same thing in WotB as well. Some new players signed up, got their RGB, played a turn or two and then left(there were exceptions of course).

If in the next game RGB's are not used then there should be options for those who don't have an avatar to play the game as well. Either agents or some avatarless characters they have created(like the ones YLC had in LotR). This way they can participate in the game but if they decide to quit it wouldn't hurt that much.

[Braden]

I'm happy with that and agree also. Not only do RGB's devalue avatars but having to wait for an active avatar allows players to get a greater feel for the game by following on the sidelines, also if their not about when an avatar becomes available then perhaps they were not the sort of longer term player needed for the game.

Hell! I remember playing for a month or more as a SPY!

Perhaps we also lacked RP avenues but that might also be due to the slightly more restrictive settings. The only major RP was our princess I thought.

Actually, daft as it sounds..how about a return to Rome or similar? The historical political in-fighting, back-stabbing and general playing for personal benefit was a great setting for pure Role Play and opened people up for this even when they had no full avatar.

Is there a Rome(ish) Mod for Medieval II?...its ok, found it..EBII...no experience of it yet but then I can't add ANYTHING to my PC yet, not even a demo, space is that tight.

[TinCow]

If in the next game RGB's are not used then there should be options for those who don't have an avatar to play the game as well. Either agents or some avatarless characters they have created(like the ones YLC had in LotR). This way they can participate in the game but if they decide to quit it wouldn't hurt that much.

The very first game, WOTS, had a two-tier Senate (Diet, etc.) system that was essentially divided between core players and casual players. Core players had avatars, ran for Consul, and did the usual stuff that we do in all these games. Casual players had no avatar and their votes were not 'weighted' by influence (back when we were still doing that). The idea was to allow any casual observer to drop into the game to vote during Senate sessions, but not to require further interaction from them. It worked relatively well, though it's worth noting that casual player participation was sporatic at best. Something similar could be done in future games.